Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 2]
Discussion
Gary11 said:
Mikeyboy said:
Since they built the High Speed Line to Valencia from Madrid it has become the beach venue of choice for the posh Madrid set. It has as you say very little else going for it.
The Wealthy in Madrid, of which my ex is one, have not done much in the way of cuttng back yet and so its popularity has in fact grown in the past years, as you can now buy an apartment for a third of what it was in 2009. This may change though when the reality of their economy hits even the Pijos as they are called.
Spain is always a country where you wonder what people do. In the South they grow stuff in the north the fish stuff and in the middle they live in Madrid and make tiles.
Do you know I had never thought that of Spain ,Greece yes,but the spanish manyana,siesta,hacienda del sol may well have caught up with them!The Wealthy in Madrid, of which my ex is one, have not done much in the way of cuttng back yet and so its popularity has in fact grown in the past years, as you can now buy an apartment for a third of what it was in 2009. This may change though when the reality of their economy hits even the Pijos as they are called.
Spain is always a country where you wonder what people do. In the South they grow stuff in the north the fish stuff and in the middle they live in Madrid and make tiles.
I remember when we had our house in Majorca a few years back the locals were over the moon with the exchange over to the euro and really did smack tourist ass,if you picked at a few labels in the stores and supermarkets quite often the old peseta value was still underneath to say double would be a understatement in most cases.
The country did get caught up in the whole building boom though and this means that many of its largest companies are builders/infrastructure companies. This means there are too many people skilled in infrastructure skills and not enough in the things that may turn around the economy. Eg. A lot of people trained to be architects. They now work in the various Zaras of London.
HundredthIdiot said:
Globs said:
If the Irish do eventually vote for it, then they will have been very very very very stupid. It wil also prove conclusively that you really do get the leaders you deserve.
Before the EU/ECB Ireland was a sustainable, independent country.
Now it's just a broken part of the EU/ECB experiment, told what to do and when to do it by foreigners thousands of miles away.
I still puzzle about what the IRA was all about, they hated any sign of England's control and yet they have let the europeans walk all over them and grind their faces into the dirt. Totally baffling.
Equating the EU fiscal compact with English rule is fatuous. FWIW Sinn Fein are the only party with any kind of anti-EU stance, but that's probably a consequence of their economic illiteracy. So if you're looking for consistency, it's there.Before the EU/ECB Ireland was a sustainable, independent country.
Now it's just a broken part of the EU/ECB experiment, told what to do and when to do it by foreigners thousands of miles away.
I still puzzle about what the IRA was all about, they hated any sign of England's control and yet they have let the europeans walk all over them and grind their faces into the dirt. Totally baffling.
They didn't like being told what to do by the English, but now they get told EXACTLY what to do, when to do it and how much to spend by the EU/ECB.
Globs said:
They didn't like being told what to do by the English, but now they get told EXACTLY what to do, when to do it and how much to spend by the EU/ECB.
You (deliberately?) missed the third (and most critical) troika partner - the IMF. IMF bailout -> give up all economic sovereignty.The only reason that the troika are calling the shots is because the Irish can't raise money in the markets at affordable rates or keep deposits in Irish banks.
In fact there is an argument that even if the Irish vote no in the referendum, it won't matter because they'll be back to the markets when the existing bailout arrangements come to an end. The problem with that theory is that the EFSF or whatever is the backstop which the markets require in order to lend again, so a "yes" vote is required to lower debt servicing costs and make market re-entry possible.
In any case you're treating "the Irish" as a homogenous block of opinion. There is no "they", unless you're talking about Sinn Fein, and as I've explained they've been consistently anti-EU for a long time.
HundredthIdiot said:
You (deliberately?) missed the third (and most critical) troika partner - the IMF. IMF bailout -> give up all economic sovereignty.
Sorry I missed that. The IMF conditions finish when you repay the loan, whereas the EU legacy lasts beyond the death of the country... Also they had a vote, a choice, and they voted for slavery. To make that mistake once is bad, but if they make it twice it will look like carelessness.
Shame they spent all that money they borrowed buying each others houses, they seem to now have lost the country and gained nothing in return
Mermaid said:
Is this the end (short term) of the rise and rise of the stock markets?
There languishes on balance sheets an ocean of liquidity that has, to date, not escaped the confines of it's 'gilt'ed cage. This gives policy makers room to keep the taps on without the fear of having to increase interest rates. Blimey
Slipped to the second page, perhaps this is an indicator that things aren't so bad after all.
Oh no wait a minute...
Just read this http://www.openeurope.org.uk/Content/Documents/Pdf...
Oh dear, empty your bank account and buy corned beef and batteries!
Slipped to the second page, perhaps this is an indicator that things aren't so bad after all.
Oh no wait a minute...
Just read this http://www.openeurope.org.uk/Content/Documents/Pdf...
Oh dear, empty your bank account and buy corned beef and batteries!
Mikeyboy said:
To be fair to them I've not been strictly honest there. The country went through some reforms to its industry if not its work practices in the 80s and now its home to a decent amount of car and aero manufacturing, even if they are mostly foreign owned. It also has a thriving merchant sector. Zara being the best known.
The country did get caught up in the whole building boom though and this means that many of its largest companies are builders/infrastructure companies. This means there are too many people skilled in infrastructure skills and not enough in the things that may turn around the economy. Eg. A lot of people trained to be architects. They now work in the various Zaras of London.
I still feel the jist of your post is true particularly in tourist areas where the commercial hub is obviously holiday driven Spain is a big country with a lot of debt and shrinking tourist spend,horrendously expensive now with much competition from Turkey and the likeThe country did get caught up in the whole building boom though and this means that many of its largest companies are builders/infrastructure companies. This means there are too many people skilled in infrastructure skills and not enough in the things that may turn around the economy. Eg. A lot of people trained to be architects. They now work in the various Zaras of London.
Gargamel said:
Blimey
Slipped to the second page, perhaps this is an indicator that things aren't so bad after all.
Oh no wait a minute...
Just read this http://www.openeurope.org.uk/Content/Documents/Pdf...
Oh dear, empty your bank account and buy corned beef and batteries!
Oh Dear is just about 100% correct.Slipped to the second page, perhaps this is an indicator that things aren't so bad after all.
Oh no wait a minute...
Just read this http://www.openeurope.org.uk/Content/Documents/Pdf...
Oh dear, empty your bank account and buy corned beef and batteries!
What the EU and the ECB are doing is transforming the hopeless insolvency of Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy and Ireland into a complete undermining of the entire financial structure of the Eurozone.
Central Bankers and Politicians have forged a wholly selfish, self elected and self perpetuating Oligarchy ensuring absolute control of the EU finances by Eurocrats and Central Bankers and huge Salaries, Bonuses and Pensions for themselves.
This is in reality desperately dangerous uncontrolled funny money printing exercise, never approved by the EU electorate and without any attempt to inquire whether the poor Eurozone taxpayers have any hope of surviving the huge downside of this largess.
I do not think the majority of the EU electorate would ever agree to this disgraceful and pernicious abuse of power. Naturally the EU will not bother to ask them.
There is going to be hell to to pay over this. By the Eurozone in the end.
I think this is without doubt the time for the UK to ensure it is not involved in any way in what is bound to be an absolute disaster in the end.
There is no growth coming from this madness. What is coming is huge permanent lasting damage to the Eurozone and dilution of the Euro as a currency. There will be hell to pay. I just hope that the UK government will see this for what it is and have absolutely nothing to do with it.
Tragically all this will do is to allow grossly overborrowed Banks and Bankers to continue with the pretense that all is well, well in fact everything is getting steadily worse. Horrendously worse.
The EU have spent half a trillion Euros so far. See Robert Peston's comments.
They will need to continue the drip feed again and again and again and again.
I am utterly disgusted at the sheer dishonesty of all this.
This will not work of course. Unless the EU spend another half a trillion Euros continuing the drip feed. And keep repeating this system.
The reality is this is a gamble, once again, by Central Bankers.
It will not work, but as the last Banking crisis proved this does not matter to the retiring Eurocrats and Central Bankers who will be ensconced in mansions safely out of the way of trouble.
I just pray we can escape the inevitable crash that is coming.
Interesting article on the causes of the Eurozone crisis:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16290598
Naturally the EU deny that there is a crisis. None so blind....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16290598
Naturally the EU deny that there is a crisis. None so blind....
And elsewhere http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17230760
Ozzie Osmond said:
".... a great leap, a first step towards stability and political union."
The trouble is Ozzie, it is blindingly obvious that this is completely untrue.I have been trying to work out the consequences of another 500 Million Euros thrown onto the wasteheap by the EU. On TOP of the last 500 million Euros.
There is nothing in any of this that will address the insolvency of the Defaulting countries and the Defaulting Banks. The EU are throwing shedloads of money down the drain.
I am at a loss to know how badly this will end.
That is 1000 million Euros wasted without one single problem being solved by the EU.
Yet this cannot stop the inevitability of the failure of the defaulters. Greece is by any judgement Insolvent. So are Spain and Portugal. Italy is on a knife edge.
The EU are desperately trying to push this problem forward. But it is getting worse as time goes by.
God knows where this will end. One thing is certain. The defaulters cannot recover.
Crafty_ said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
".... a great leap, a first step towards stability and political union."
Isn't that the b
ks they came out with when they dreamt up the euro ?Still, worked out just like they said eh ?
Seeing Ozzie's words there I had only one thought: 'Pathetic'.
Edited by Globs on Friday 2nd March 21:48
Huntsman said:
A chum commented to me last night that heard heard this week that a major French bank is about to go bust, anyone heard this?
Since the ECB is lending willy nilly to insolvent Banks everywhere in the EU, and therefore EU banks are able to borrow despite being hopelessly overexposed in gross overlending that would surprise me. Maybe there is an internal undisclosed problem at the Bank concerned.
France and Belgium are already grossly overexposed by their respective National Banking insolvency which they will have to bail out.
Any chance of the source being found. Nothing would surprise me with this mess.
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