Julian Assange loses extradition appeal at Supreme Court
Discussion
XCP said:
Do you think that there might be a willingness to report rape in Sweden that does not exist here ( and in some other countries).
Maybe compared to England or other countries, but not compared to Finland and Norway. These three countries are very close in social and cultural aspects, why would a Swedish woman be more willing to report rape than a Norwegian one, it doesn't make any sense.2008 rapes/100,000
Sweden 53.2
Norway 19.8
Finland 17.2
But then, a ripped condom is seen as rape in Sweden, even if consent had been given to the sexual act itself, and there we enter (no pun intended) the messed up Swedish sexual legislation.
Finlandia said:
The information is my own, which I have gathered throughout the years of living in Sweden and reading news papers etc.
There are twice as many rapes per capita in Sweden than in England, four times as many as in neighbouring Finland and Norway, 20 times as many as Southern and Eastern Europe. In fact Sweden is second from top when it comes to rape statistics in the world, only Lesotho has more rapes per capita.
The successful rape conviction rate in Sweden is the lowest in Europe at 13%.
In 2008 60% of the convicted rapists were foreigners or immigrants, while they only account for 17% of the population.
Adding these facts together, there has to be plenty of rapists hiding abroad who are not to be extradited to Sweden, but then they aren't of any political interest.
Also the sexual laws in Sweden are, shall we say messed up.
A few days ago a woman was nearly raped, she was dragged in to a park and beaten, but escaped before the rape. As the woman was a transgender, the rapist is not going to be charged with rape or sexual assault, as "the rape could not have been fulfilled".
Prostitution, you can legally sell sex, but buying sex is illegal.
I'm sure you'll understand that I'll afford your personal view less weight than properly researched statistics.There are twice as many rapes per capita in Sweden than in England, four times as many as in neighbouring Finland and Norway, 20 times as many as Southern and Eastern Europe. In fact Sweden is second from top when it comes to rape statistics in the world, only Lesotho has more rapes per capita.
The successful rape conviction rate in Sweden is the lowest in Europe at 13%.
In 2008 60% of the convicted rapists were foreigners or immigrants, while they only account for 17% of the population.
Adding these facts together, there has to be plenty of rapists hiding abroad who are not to be extradited to Sweden, but then they aren't of any political interest.
Also the sexual laws in Sweden are, shall we say messed up.
A few days ago a woman was nearly raped, she was dragged in to a park and beaten, but escaped before the rape. As the woman was a transgender, the rapist is not going to be charged with rape or sexual assault, as "the rape could not have been fulfilled".
Prostitution, you can legally sell sex, but buying sex is illegal.
Edited by Finlandia on Friday 6th July 10:42
Just to correct a few of your statements. There are twice as many rapes reported in Sweden than in the UK. For a start, Sweden has a much wider definition of rape than many countries (before you pick up on this, what Assange is alleged to have done does comfortably fall within the definition of rape in the UK and most other countries). I suspect the reason fewer rapes are reported in Lesotho is that the rape victims feel there is no point reporting it.
The majority of these, for one reason or another, are not pursued by the prosecutors. In fact, around 300 were tried in 2010, of which 200 were convicted.
You're also making a massive assumption that those foreigners or immigrants have left the country. Have you got anything at all to back this up?
samwilliams said:
Finlandia said:
The information is my own, which I have gathered throughout the years of living in Sweden and reading news papers etc.
There are twice as many rapes per capita in Sweden than in England, four times as many as in neighbouring Finland and Norway, 20 times as many as Southern and Eastern Europe. In fact Sweden is second from top when it comes to rape statistics in the world, only Lesotho has more rapes per capita.
The successful rape conviction rate in Sweden is the lowest in Europe at 13%.
In 2008 60% of the convicted rapists were foreigners or immigrants, while they only account for 17% of the population.
Adding these facts together, there has to be plenty of rapists hiding abroad who are not to be extradited to Sweden, but then they aren't of any political interest.
Also the sexual laws in Sweden are, shall we say messed up.
A few days ago a woman was nearly raped, she was dragged in to a park and beaten, but escaped before the rape. As the woman was a transgender, the rapist is not going to be charged with rape or sexual assault, as "the rape could not have been fulfilled".
Prostitution, you can legally sell sex, but buying sex is illegal.
I'm sure you'll understand that I'll afford your personal view less weight than properly researched statistics.There are twice as many rapes per capita in Sweden than in England, four times as many as in neighbouring Finland and Norway, 20 times as many as Southern and Eastern Europe. In fact Sweden is second from top when it comes to rape statistics in the world, only Lesotho has more rapes per capita.
The successful rape conviction rate in Sweden is the lowest in Europe at 13%.
In 2008 60% of the convicted rapists were foreigners or immigrants, while they only account for 17% of the population.
Adding these facts together, there has to be plenty of rapists hiding abroad who are not to be extradited to Sweden, but then they aren't of any political interest.
Also the sexual laws in Sweden are, shall we say messed up.
A few days ago a woman was nearly raped, she was dragged in to a park and beaten, but escaped before the rape. As the woman was a transgender, the rapist is not going to be charged with rape or sexual assault, as "the rape could not have been fulfilled".
Prostitution, you can legally sell sex, but buying sex is illegal.
Edited by Finlandia on Friday 6th July 10:42
Just to correct a few of your statements. There are twice as many rapes reported in Sweden than in the UK. For a start, Sweden has a much wider definition of rape than many countries (before you pick up on this, what Assange is alleged to have done does comfortably fall within the definition of rape in the UK and most other countries). I suspect the reason fewer rapes are reported in Lesotho is that the rape victims feel there is no point reporting it.
The majority of these, for one reason or another, are not pursued by the prosecutors. In fact, around 300 were tried in 2010, of which 200 were convicted.
You're also making a massive assumption that those foreigners or immigrants have left the country. Have you got anything at all to back this up?
http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/C...
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article12417039....
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/flest-valdtakter-...
Snippets from the above links: 80-90% of the rapes in Sweden are not reported, only 2% of the rapes reported are falsely reported, only 13% of the reported rapes result in conviction, Sweden has the second highest rape reporting in the world per capita (only Lesotho has more), the reporting can be partly explained by the legislation and wording but the trend is that rapes are increasing quite alarmingly.
In 2010 19,600 sex offences were reported to the police, 40% of them were rape or attempted rape, 2,530 were child (0-17 year old) rape or attempted rape, most of the reported sex offences were from pimping or buying sexual favours.
Finlandia said:
Sure, I understand that you don't count my personal views as weighty as properly researched statistics, but I live here and I see it every day.
http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/C...
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article12417039....
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/flest-valdtakter-...
Snippets from the above links: 80-90% of the rapes in Sweden are not reported, only 2% of the rapes reported are falsely reported, only 13% of the reported rapes result in conviction, Sweden has the second highest rape reporting in the world per capita (only Lesotho has more), the reporting can be partly explained by the legislation and wording but the trend is that rapes are increasing quite alarmingly.
In 2010 19,600 sex offences were reported to the police, 40% of them were rape or attempted rape, 2,530 were child (0-17 year old) rape or attempted rape, most of the reported sex offences were from pimping or buying sexual favours.
If, as you say (and it sounds like you have a point), Sweden has an increasing problem with rape, why are you advocating against the extradition of an individual who is alleged to have carried out such a rape?http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/C...
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article12417039....
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/flest-valdtakter-...
Snippets from the above links: 80-90% of the rapes in Sweden are not reported, only 2% of the rapes reported are falsely reported, only 13% of the reported rapes result in conviction, Sweden has the second highest rape reporting in the world per capita (only Lesotho has more), the reporting can be partly explained by the legislation and wording but the trend is that rapes are increasing quite alarmingly.
In 2010 19,600 sex offences were reported to the police, 40% of them were rape or attempted rape, 2,530 were child (0-17 year old) rape or attempted rape, most of the reported sex offences were from pimping or buying sexual favours.
Because why him, why now, and why haven't they just come over here to question him as they have been known to do? And why are they refusing immunity from US extradition?
They want him so they can hand him to the Americans so they can attempt tie him and Bradley Manning up in a neat little bow and sell them down the river and then crow to the world about how you will end up dead if you reveal america's dirty laundry.
Is that tin foil material, you may say so, but given how America are being shown to act extra-judicially in a number of areas I don't believe it's that far fetched.
They want him so they can hand him to the Americans so they can attempt tie him and Bradley Manning up in a neat little bow and sell them down the river and then crow to the world about how you will end up dead if you reveal america's dirty laundry.
Is that tin foil material, you may say so, but given how America are being shown to act extra-judicially in a number of areas I don't believe it's that far fetched.
Edited by Marf on Friday 6th July 12:33
samwilliams said:
If, as you say (and it sounds like you have a point), Sweden has an increasing problem with rape, why are you advocating against the extradition of an individual who is alleged to have carried out such a rape?
Marf said:
Because why him, why now, and why haven't they just come over here to question him as they have been known to do? And why are they refusing immunity from US extradition?
Pretty much this, but I'm not "advocating" anything. I just find it odd, seeing as there are plenty of real rapists to deal with within the country, the sort that put a bag over the head of the victim and a knife to the throat, or the sort that was shown in The girl with the dragon tattoo, why put so much work into one relatively harmless rapist?XCP said:
Because he is high profile and easy to find? Turn the question around and ask why would the Swedish authorities not seek a suspect who is well known and not hard to find?
and as been pointed out many times Julian assigns has fully agreed to answer there questions here or in Sweden providing if he goes to Sweden they guarantee not to hand him to America. They have declined all offers.
XCP said:
Because he is high profile and easy to find? Turn the question around and ask why would the Swedish authorities not seek a suspect who is well known and not hard to find?
Why haven't the Swedish authorities granted his request to not be handed over to US then? Why have CIA operations been carried out in Sweden before?Finlandia said:
Why haven't the Swedish authorities granted his request to not be handed over to US then? Why have CIA operations been carried out in Sweden before?
Why should they? As far as I'm aware, that would be a completely unprecedented step. And CIA operations have probably been carried out in the majority of countries around the world (including the UK).samwilliams said:
Finlandia said:
Why haven't the Swedish authorities granted his request to not be handed over to US then? Why have CIA operations been carried out in Sweden before?
Why should they? As far as I'm aware, that would be a completely unprecedented step. And CIA operations have probably been carried out in the majority of countries around the world (including the UK).Finlandia said:
Why shouldn't they, as the country that has become synonymous with security, humanity and democracy? Also you are forgetting that Sweden is "neutral", UK isn't.
To me it would seem like a strange step to say "we have reason to believe you may be a rapist and want to talk to you about that, but we promise to protect you in a way we would never protect anybody else".I don't get your neutral point though. I'm quite possibly missing something but, as you say the UK is not neutral, surely that would make extradition to the US from the UK easier (which, as it happens, it probably is).
samwilliams said:
To me it would seem like a strange step to say "we have reason to believe you may be a rapist and want to talk to you about that, but we promise to protect you in a way we would never protect anybody else".
I don't get your neutral point though. I'm quite possibly missing something but, as you say the UK is not neutral, surely that would make extradition to the US from the UK easier (which, as it happens, it probably is).
not necessarily no. I posted a link a few posts back which explains pros and cons though it worth noting the website may be assange wikileaks etc affiliatedI don't get your neutral point though. I'm quite possibly missing something but, as you say the UK is not neutral, surely that would make extradition to the US from the UK easier (which, as it happens, it probably is).
Finlandia said:
Why haven't the Swedish authorities granted his request to not be handed over to US then? Why have CIA operations been carried out in Sweden before?
The question was why would the Swedes bother with one alleged rapist when there are ( apparently) numerous others on the loose. What happens to him subsequently has nothing to do with that question. The obvious answer being that you pick the easy fruit first. To be honest this is not far removed from people shouting 'why don't you catch some real criminals' when the police do something they don't agree with. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff