Julian Assange loses extradition appeal at Supreme Court
Discussion
Horsey McHorseface said:
KrazyIvan said:
untakenname said:
In the seven years he was there didn't he even consider trying to escape? He could have worn a disguise or had a body double make a distraction or simply dug a hole in that time.
Having seen him today, he could have walked out in yellow waterproofs as the f
king fishermans friend.Sorry, back to the serious chat.
La Liga said:
There’s some suggestion from the Guardian the Swedes wanted to interview him much sooner but were discouraged from doing so by the CPS. I don’t know how it works in Sweden, but once they’d interviewed him could they have not charged him if it was political or worse to keep the EAW active? Who knows? Without having some inquiry or objective, intrusive look at that whole side of it we need to be cautious about adding too much weight to information sources.
Regarding false allegations, you need to add another dimension to them. That is that the further along the investigation, the more likely the allegations are discontinued.
Regarding false accusations, how are we measuring those? The implication of calling, say, 5% false is that 95% are true. But IIRC only a relatively small proportion of all allegations proceed to trial. Of those that are dropped along the way, how is it to be determined that some (or even a significant proportion) are not also false?Regarding false allegations, you need to add another dimension to them. That is that the further along the investigation, the more likely the allegations are discontinued.
https://fullfact.org/crime/how-many-reported-rapes... suggest instead that 50% of reports got to trial, and as of those 42% resulted in convictions.
Let's take that latter set of numbers for the sake of argument.
Using a very black-or-white approach to those stats, only 21% of allegations are proven to be "true." If 5% are proven to be "false" then what of the other 74%? Some or all of those could also be false. Or not.
On the face of it there seems little data to support the 5% claim as being the complete overall picture of false allegation rates, certainly not insofar as it characterises such allegations as the minority.
So we're clear, I am NOT saying that the number is not 5% and instead is 50%. I'm saying that the available data seems to get spun dramatically, and seems unreliable at best.
I'm very happy to be pointed to proper, credible studies to give me more data and insight on this topic BTW
La Liga said:
There’s some suggestion from the Guardian the Swedes wanted to interview him much sooner but were discouraged from doing so by the CPS. I don’t know how it works in Sweden, but once they’d interviewed him could they have not charged him if it was political or worse to keep the EAW active? Who knows? Without having some inquiry or objective, intrusive look at that whole side of it we need to be cautious about adding too much weight to information sources.
Regarding false allegations, you need to add another dimension to them. That is that the further along the investigation, the more likely the allegations are discontinued.
The Swedish DA refused to interview JA anywhere else but in Sweden, citing law praxis and legalities as the reason. She changed her mind when the Court of Appeal deemed otherwise and pushed for dropping the charges or interviewing JA in London.Regarding false allegations, you need to add another dimension to them. That is that the further along the investigation, the more likely the allegations are discontinued.
JA had all along offered to be interviewed in London or in Sweden, if he was guaranteed not to be extradited to the USA. The DA refused any such guarantees, and so on it went up until some of the lesser charges met their best before date.
This is a personal vendetta against JA and Wikileaks for exposing the former Swedish Government to be a foul player while claiming to be a humane superpower. The leaks were a contributing reason for the loss in the elections and a big stain on the former minister of justice, who happens to be a partner of the law firm that convinced a second DA to reopen the case against JA.
The plan must have been to extract revenge on JA for exposing the dirt, and if all went really well, JA could be handed over to the USA on a silver plate, thus restoring the frosty relationship between the countries that had been since Sweden was forced to pull out of the rendition programme due to the national and international storm caused by the leaks.
It's also interesting that so many of the key players are high up the ranks in the party that sat in government during the rendition programme, the girls are party members, the police who pushed for rape charge, both partners in the law firm that pushed for reopening the case, and of course one of the partners being the stained former minister of justice.
Too much of a coincidence to not be orchestrated, if you ask me.
After reading a fair bit about this.
Some of it is odd. He was using the embassy as a base and was given asylum there, yet was exploiting his position there constantly, rumours of rudeness to staff, constantly complaining about his rights, what he should be able to do, and what he can't.
Would you not think he would simply be thankful? And not rock the boat?
This was always going to end this way, the US and our gov would eventually put enough pressure on Ecuador it would cave, as by the sound of it Assange did himself.
While I have some sympathy with his cause and what he has done, I think there is scope for an organisation such as his. Some of the back story does not add up.
Some of it is odd. He was using the embassy as a base and was given asylum there, yet was exploiting his position there constantly, rumours of rudeness to staff, constantly complaining about his rights, what he should be able to do, and what he can't.
Would you not think he would simply be thankful? And not rock the boat?
This was always going to end this way, the US and our gov would eventually put enough pressure on Ecuador it would cave, as by the sound of it Assange did himself.
While I have some sympathy with his cause and what he has done, I think there is scope for an organisation such as his. Some of the back story does not add up.
From the comments on an article about this on the US tech new site arstechnica it seems that a lot of liberal Americans feel like while someone exposing US/global wrongdoings could theoretically be OK, he got so involved in discrediting Hilary Clinton in the presidential campaign that he'd flipped from useful to useful idiot.
It seems so weird that his supporters in the UK are the more strident Labour side and in the US it's the Trump/anti-Clinton side!
It seems so weird that his supporters in the UK are the more strident Labour side and in the US it's the Trump/anti-Clinton side!
BlackLabel said:
I believe the Met has released a transcript of what he was telling officers as he was removed from the Embassy. 
"Mister, you just assured me that I could speak. Look, i'm under what? Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest. Have a look at the headlock here, see that chap over there? he- GET YOUR HAND OFF MY PENIS! This is the bloke who got me on the penis people. Why did you do this to me, for what reason, what is the charge? eating a meal? a succulent chinese meal. Oh, that's a nice headlock sir, oh, ah yes, I see that you know your judo well. Good one. And you sir, are you waiting to receive my limp penis? How dare - get your hands off me! Ta-ta, and farewell."
Finlandia said:
The Swedish DA refused to interview JA anywhere else but in Sweden, citing law praxis and legalities as the reason. She changed her mind when the Court of Appeal deemed otherwise and pushed for dropping the charges or interviewing JA in London.
Not that effective-a-conspiracy if the COA got getting in the way like that. skwdenyer said:
Regarding false accusations, how are we measuring those? The implication of calling, say, 5% false is that 95% are true. But IIRC only a relatively small proportion of all allegations proceed to trial. Of those that are dropped along the way, how is it to be determined that some (or even a significant proportion) are not also false?
https://fullfact.org/crime/how-many-reported-rapes... suggest instead that 50% of reports got to trial, and as of those 42% resulted in convictions.
Let's take that latter set of numbers for the sake of argument.
Using a very black-or-white approach to those stats, only 21% of allegations are proven to be "true." If 5% are proven to be "false" then what of the other 74%? Some or all of those could also be false. Or not.
On the face of it there seems little data to support the 5% claim as being the complete overall picture of false allegation rates, certainly not insofar as it characterises such allegations as the minority.
So we're clear, I am NOT saying that the number is not 5% and instead is 50%. I'm saying that the available data seems to get spun dramatically, and seems unreliable at best.
I'm very happy to be pointed to proper, credible studies to give me more data and insight on this topic BTW
I didn't cite any data / studies, it was someone else, so I am not sure of the sources / methodology etc. https://fullfact.org/crime/how-many-reported-rapes... suggest instead that 50% of reports got to trial, and as of those 42% resulted in convictions.
Let's take that latter set of numbers for the sake of argument.
Using a very black-or-white approach to those stats, only 21% of allegations are proven to be "true." If 5% are proven to be "false" then what of the other 74%? Some or all of those could also be false. Or not.
On the face of it there seems little data to support the 5% claim as being the complete overall picture of false allegation rates, certainly not insofar as it characterises such allegations as the minority.
So we're clear, I am NOT saying that the number is not 5% and instead is 50%. I'm saying that the available data seems to get spun dramatically, and seems unreliable at best.
I'm very happy to be pointed to proper, credible studies to give me more data and insight on this topic BTW
Most rape allegations don't make court because there has to be a realistic prospect of conviction and often there isn't.
P-Jay said:
BlackLabel said:
I believe the Met has released a transcript of what he was telling officers as he was removed from the Embassy. "Mister, you just assured me that I could speak. Look, i'm under what? Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest. Have a look at the headlock here, see that chap over there? he- GET YOUR HAND OFF MY PENIS! This is the bloke who got me on the penis people. Why did you do this to me, for what reason, what is the charge? eating a meal? a succulent chinese meal. Oh, that's a nice headlock sir, oh, ah yes, I see that you know your judo well. Good one. And you sir, are you waiting to receive my limp penis? How dare - get your hands off me! Ta-ta, and farewell."
La Liga said:
Finlandia said:
The Swedish DA refused to interview JA anywhere else but in Sweden, citing law praxis and legalities as the reason. She changed her mind when the Court of Appeal deemed otherwise and pushed for dropping the charges or interviewing JA in London.
Not that effective-a-conspiracy if the COA got getting in the way like that. All these "coincidences" are really too much of a coincidence to be just that.
Clearly you are in the ring corner of 'governments never do anything dirty and justice systems are faultless', I on the other hand am firmly in the other corner, 'all governments are more or less involved in dirty business and the justice systems are far from spotless'.
Finlandia said:
Clearly you are in the ring corner of 'governments never do anything dirty and justice systems are faultless', I on the other hand am firmly in the other corner, 'all governments are more or less involved in dirty business and the justice systems are far from spotless'.
Clearly: La Liga said:
I don't think anyone is saying that governments aren't capable and haven't done shady things in the past...
As useful as me saying you're selectively taking information to turn 2+2 into 5.BlackLabel said:
Looks like the Americans are not charging him for publishing state secrets - guess they'd have to go after the press too if that was the case - but for computer hacking instead. The maximum sentence for this is 5 years in prison.
"Prosecutors accused Assange of working with Chelsea Manning, a U.S. Army intelligence analyst in Iraq in 2010, to crack a government computer password and access a vast trove of classified U.S. military and diplomatic reports and cables that were subsequently disclosed through WikiLeaks.
If convicted on the conspiracy charge, Assange, 47, could face five years in prison. It wasn’t immediately clear if he would face additional U.S. charges now that he is custody."
https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-britain-julian...
The 'computer hacking' charge gives them the pretext to secure his extradition from the UK. It's just a means to an end, like the ludicrous 'rape' accusations were."Prosecutors accused Assange of working with Chelsea Manning, a U.S. Army intelligence analyst in Iraq in 2010, to crack a government computer password and access a vast trove of classified U.S. military and diplomatic reports and cables that were subsequently disclosed through WikiLeaks.
If convicted on the conspiracy charge, Assange, 47, could face five years in prison. It wasn’t immediately clear if he would face additional U.S. charges now that he is custody."
https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-britain-julian...
Once he's in their custody, they'll hit him with more serious charges likely potentially carrying the death penalty.
kev1974 said:
smeared poo on the embassy walls, allegedly
https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/11/julian-assange-smea...
how pleasant
Alleged by a representative of the same government that denied anything was afoot when the news of their deal to hand him over was exposed a few days ago:https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/11/julian-assange-smea...
how pleasant
Ecuadorian government statement from 6th of April:
"Ecuador “categorically rejects the fake news that have circulated recently on social networks, many spread by an organization linked to Mr Julian Assange, about an imminent termination of the diplomatic asylum granted to him since 2012,”
Yep, Very credible.
Edited by Lucas Ayde on Friday 12th April 14:11
If I had been bright enough to predict that Assange would get arrested for jumping bail and hacking into the top secret military computers of a foreign state, could I get a job as a world leading human rights journalist as well?
Jumping up and down shouting look, we told you so just makes you look foolish.
There are people that do great work and make great sacrifices in the name of human rights. Assange isn't one of them.
Jumping up and down shouting look, we told you so just makes you look foolish.
There are people that do great work and make great sacrifices in the name of human rights. Assange isn't one of them.
Lemming Train said:
La Liga said:
Lucas Ayde said:
Once he's in their custody, they'll hit him with more serious charges likely potentially carrying the death penalty.
We won't send him if he could potentially face the death penalty.
You bring a whole new meaning to the definition of the word "naive".
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