Nigel talking sense again
Discussion
DanL said:
craigjm said:
I really don’t understand all this bickering over....
Those in favour of Brexit..... “Britain will be great again and we will have brilliant trade deals”
This against Brexit “The sky is going to fall in and we will never be successful again”
In reality absolutely nobody saying any statements like that can back it up with any kind of hard facts or evidence.
The truth is that we have no idea but based on economic cycles, in the long run, we will be OK. How much better than OK is anyone’s guess so the arguments are pretty much a moot point.
I think I must be the only one getting absolutely fed up with it all and when people start slinging terms like remoaner and Brexiteer all it serves to do is undermine any sensible discussion.
As a country we need to pull together and face the new world together. Sitting in two camps throwing stones is never going to help anyone.
This.Those in favour of Brexit..... “Britain will be great again and we will have brilliant trade deals”
This against Brexit “The sky is going to fall in and we will never be successful again”
In reality absolutely nobody saying any statements like that can back it up with any kind of hard facts or evidence.
The truth is that we have no idea but based on economic cycles, in the long run, we will be OK. How much better than OK is anyone’s guess so the arguments are pretty much a moot point.
I think I must be the only one getting absolutely fed up with it all and when people start slinging terms like remoaner and Brexiteer all it serves to do is undermine any sensible discussion.
As a country we need to pull together and face the new world together. Sitting in two camps throwing stones is never going to help anyone.
I’d have preferred if we had voted to remain, but we are where we are, and it seems we’re exiting one way or another. I have no interest in a second vote, but I would have liked to see something better than the absolutely hopeless negotiations, and the bickering that has come from them.
I’m sure in the long term we’ll adapt and manage - we always have. I’m sure in the short term we’ll feel some economic pain - it looks like we’ll be leaving the EU with no trade agreements at a time where the world’s economy is slowing and is likely to enter a recession, and I’m sure a disorderly Brexit will make the global situation worse.
What I want to see is our politicians pulling together and working something out, rather than furiously trying to score points and stab each other in the back.
In reality I suspect that most are like this and are fed up with the extremist a
holes 
PositronicRay said:
craigjm said:
z4RRSchris said:
"Says it's the EUs fault that the UK has not been able to offer a solution on avoiding a hard border in Ireland"
without being in the customs union and single market this is impossible. There is no solution.
The only solution is having a less hard boarder where good checks are caried out away from it, like in norway etc.
There is another solution that nobody appears to have the balls to talk about and that’s to hand back Ulster to the Irish. If we don’t want a hard border then make the sea our border and let the Irish deal with their own problem. without being in the customs union and single market this is impossible. There is no solution.
The only solution is having a less hard boarder where good checks are caried out away from it, like in norway etc.
They would never do it but it IS an option
billshoreham said:
alfie2244 said:
First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And they they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you. And this is what is going to happen to the Nige
strange you didn't acknowledge that the comment is a mild variation on a classic Tony Benn theme.
HTHstrange you didn't acknowledge that the comment is a mild variation on a classic Tony Benn theme.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/08/13/stages/
craigjm said:
PositronicRay said:
craigjm said:
z4RRSchris said:
"Says it's the EUs fault that the UK has not been able to offer a solution on avoiding a hard border in Ireland"
without being in the customs union and single market this is impossible. There is no solution.
The only solution is having a less hard boarder where good checks are caried out away from it, like in norway etc.
There is another solution that nobody appears to have the balls to talk about and that’s to hand back Ulster to the Irish. If we don’t want a hard border then make the sea our border and let the Irish deal with their own problem. without being in the customs union and single market this is impossible. There is no solution.
The only solution is having a less hard boarder where good checks are caried out away from it, like in norway etc.
They would never do it but it IS an option
DanL said:
craigjm said:
I really don’t understand all this bickering over....
Those in favour of Brexit..... “Britain will be great again and we will have brilliant trade deals”
This against Brexit “The sky is going to fall in and we will never be successful again”
In reality absolutely nobody saying any statements like that can back it up with any kind of hard facts or evidence.
The truth is that we have no idea but based on economic cycles, in the long run, we will be OK. How much better than OK is anyone’s guess so the arguments are pretty much a moot point.
I think I must be the only one getting absolutely fed up with it all and when people start slinging terms like remoaner and Brexiteer all it serves to do is undermine any sensible discussion.
As a country we need to pull together and face the new world together. Sitting in two camps throwing stones is never going to help anyone.
This.Those in favour of Brexit..... “Britain will be great again and we will have brilliant trade deals”
This against Brexit “The sky is going to fall in and we will never be successful again”
In reality absolutely nobody saying any statements like that can back it up with any kind of hard facts or evidence.
The truth is that we have no idea but based on economic cycles, in the long run, we will be OK. How much better than OK is anyone’s guess so the arguments are pretty much a moot point.
I think I must be the only one getting absolutely fed up with it all and when people start slinging terms like remoaner and Brexiteer all it serves to do is undermine any sensible discussion.
As a country we need to pull together and face the new world together. Sitting in two camps throwing stones is never going to help anyone.
I’d have preferred if we had voted to remain, but we are where we are, and it seems we’re exiting one way or another. I have no interest in a second vote, but I would have liked to see something better than the absolutely hopeless negotiations, and the bickering that has come from them.
I’m sure in the long term we’ll adapt and manage - we always have. I’m sure in the short term we’ll feel some economic pain - it looks like we’ll be leaving the EU with no trade agreements at a time where the world’s economy is slowing and is likely to enter a recession, and I’m sure a disorderly Brexit will make the global situation worse.
What I want to see is our politicians pulling together and working something out, rather than furiously trying to score points and stab each other in the back.
craigjm said:
I really don’t understand all this bickering over....
Those in favour of Brexit..... “Britain will be great again and we will have brilliant trade deals”
This against Brexit “The sky is going to fall in and we will never be successful again”
In reality absolutely nobody saying any statements like that can back it up with any kind of hard facts or evidence.
The truth is that we have no idea but based on economic cycles, in the long run, we will be OK. How much better than OK is anyone’s guess so the arguments are pretty much a moot point.
I think I must be the only one getting absolutely fed up with it all and when people start slinging terms like remoaner and Brexiteer all it serves to do is undermine any sensible discussion.
As a country we need to pull together and face the new world together. Sitting in two camps throwing stones is never going to help anyone.
To be fair, the vast majority of the population probably accept that. A forum such as this just brings out those who hold stronger views, at both ends of the spectrum.Those in favour of Brexit..... “Britain will be great again and we will have brilliant trade deals”
This against Brexit “The sky is going to fall in and we will never be successful again”
In reality absolutely nobody saying any statements like that can back it up with any kind of hard facts or evidence.
The truth is that we have no idea but based on economic cycles, in the long run, we will be OK. How much better than OK is anyone’s guess so the arguments are pretty much a moot point.
I think I must be the only one getting absolutely fed up with it all and when people start slinging terms like remoaner and Brexiteer all it serves to do is undermine any sensible discussion.
As a country we need to pull together and face the new world together. Sitting in two camps throwing stones is never going to help anyone.
I'm sure that most 'normal' people out there are indeed..........normal.
zip929 said:
Am I right in thinking that some posters to this topic disagree with what is said in the above video?
I have viewed this video several times and can't fault it, what is said in this video has happened and is happening, it seems that people are no longer able to accept reality
Surely all of us can agree on the fact that the EU doesn't work, it isn't possible for the EU to work and it isn't difficult to see why
Once Brexit is completed everything will slowly fall into place and be ok, if it takes several years to sort out it will have been worth it
In the not too distant future the UK will be in a much better position than those countries that remained in the EU until its collapse
People here seem to be forgetting that the EU can't possibly survive in its present form
Keep smiling, all is not lost, much can be gained
Penelope Stopit said:
zip929 said:
Am I right in thinking that some posters to this topic disagree with what is said in the above video?I have viewed this video several times and can't fault it, what is said in this video has happened and is happening, it seems that people are no longer able to accept reality
Surely all of us can agree on the fact that the EU doesn't work, it isn't possible for the EU to work and it isn't difficult to see why
Once Brexit is completed everything will slowly fall into place and be ok, if it takes several years to sort out it will have been worth it
In the not too distant future the UK will be in a much better position than those countries that remained in the EU until its collapse
People here seem to be forgetting that the EU can't possibly survive in its present form
Keep smiling, all is not lost, much can be gained
Robertj21a said:
To be fair, the vast majority of the population probably accept that. A forum such as this just brings out those who hold stronger views, at both ends of the spectrum.
I'm sure that most 'normal' people out there are indeed..........normal.
You're not seriously suggesting that PH isn't completely representative of the UK as a whole are you? How on earth will the opinion bias confirmationists cope? They spend all their waking hours screaming at anyone with a different view and enjoy nothing better than agreeing with their hard right majority pals in the belief that their version of common sense extends to the whole population. There could be trouble ahead.I'm sure that most 'normal' people out there are indeed..........normal.
steve_k said:
Penelope Stopit said:
zip929 said:
Am I right in thinking that some posters to this topic disagree with what is said in the above video?I have viewed this video several times and can't fault it, what is said in this video has happened and is happening, it seems that people are no longer able to accept reality
Surely all of us can agree on the fact that the EU doesn't work, it isn't possible for the EU to work and it isn't difficult to see why
Once Brexit is completed everything will slowly fall into place and be ok, if it takes several years to sort out it will have been worth it
In the not too distant future the UK will be in a much better position than those countries that remained in the EU until its collapse
People here seem to be forgetting that the EU can't possibly survive in its present form
Keep smiling, all is not lost, much can be gained
craigjm said:
Penelope Stopit said:
People here seem to be forgetting that the EU can't possibly survive in its present form
And your evidence for this sweeping statement is what? And by evidence I mean hard tangible facts not just feelings, assumptions and guesswork. Please share Robertj21a said:
craigjm said:
I really don’t understand all this bickering over....
Those in favour of Brexit..... “Britain will be great again and we will have brilliant trade deals”
This against Brexit “The sky is going to fall in and we will never be successful again”
In reality absolutely nobody saying any statements like that can back it up with any kind of hard facts or evidence.
The truth is that we have no idea but based on economic cycles, in the long run, we will be OK. How much better than OK is anyone’s guess so the arguments are pretty much a moot point.
I think I must be the only one getting absolutely fed up with it all and when people start slinging terms like remoaner and Brexiteer all it serves to do is undermine any sensible discussion.
As a country we need to pull together and face the new world together. Sitting in two camps throwing stones is never going to help anyone.
To be fair, the vast majority of the population probably accept that. A forum such as this just brings out those who hold stronger views, at both ends of the spectrum.Those in favour of Brexit..... “Britain will be great again and we will have brilliant trade deals”
This against Brexit “The sky is going to fall in and we will never be successful again”
In reality absolutely nobody saying any statements like that can back it up with any kind of hard facts or evidence.
The truth is that we have no idea but based on economic cycles, in the long run, we will be OK. How much better than OK is anyone’s guess so the arguments are pretty much a moot point.
I think I must be the only one getting absolutely fed up with it all and when people start slinging terms like remoaner and Brexiteer all it serves to do is undermine any sensible discussion.
As a country we need to pull together and face the new world together. Sitting in two camps throwing stones is never going to help anyone.
I'm sure that most 'normal' people out there are indeed..........normal.
t.PurpleMoonlight said:
steve_k said:
Some may not have watched it at all before disagreeing with the content.
I'm sure that also applies to leavers and agreeing with their deity Farage.Yes there will fortunately have been many ignorant leavers, perhaps many leavers would have been remainers if they had known what they were voting for
Sometimes ignorance pays big dividends
craigjm said:
I really don’t understand all this bickering over....
Those in favour of Brexit..... “Britain will be great again and we will have brilliant trade deals”
This against Brexit “The sky is going to fall in and we will never be successful again”
In reality absolutely nobody saying any statements like that can back it up with any kind of hard facts or evidence.
The truth is that we have no idea but based on economic cycles, in the long run, we will be OK. How much better than OK is anyone’s guess so the arguments are pretty much a moot point.
I think I must be the only one getting absolutely fed up with it all and when people start slinging terms like remoaner and Brexiteer all it serves to do is undermine any sensible discussion.
As a country we need to pull together and face the new world together. Sitting in two camps throwing stones is never going to help anyone.
This is why we face the prospect of a cliff edge no deal.Those in favour of Brexit..... “Britain will be great again and we will have brilliant trade deals”
This against Brexit “The sky is going to fall in and we will never be successful again”
In reality absolutely nobody saying any statements like that can back it up with any kind of hard facts or evidence.
The truth is that we have no idea but based on economic cycles, in the long run, we will be OK. How much better than OK is anyone’s guess so the arguments are pretty much a moot point.
I think I must be the only one getting absolutely fed up with it all and when people start slinging terms like remoaner and Brexiteer all it serves to do is undermine any sensible discussion.
As a country we need to pull together and face the new world together. Sitting in two camps throwing stones is never going to help anyone.
If the government had been reasonable in the first place and not succumbed to those with different agendas, the 'negotiations' would have involved two years of planning for an orderly exit with some sensible discussions on how to leave with minimum disruption. It could have been done and dusted by now.
Saying that, if the government had been less interested in retaining a majority and more interested in what's best for the country, which is what they're paid and voted in for, we wouldn't be having these discussions.
craigjm said:
I really don’t understand all this bickering over....
Those in favour of Brexit..... “Britain will be great again and we will have brilliant trade deals”
This against Brexit “The sky is going to fall in and we will never be successful again”
In reality absolutely nobody saying any statements like that can back it up with any kind of hard facts or evidence.
How about this -Those in favour of Brexit..... “Britain will be great again and we will have brilliant trade deals”
This against Brexit “The sky is going to fall in and we will never be successful again”
In reality absolutely nobody saying any statements like that can back it up with any kind of hard facts or evidence.
A very great deal of the investment into the UK has been from Germany or other countries including Japan and America who wish to manufacture and sell into Europe.
The standard of debate during the referendum campaign was non-existent. It is patently clear for all the talk of 'backstops' and technological solutions' that we either stay in the Customs Union and have a soft border between Northern and Southern Ireland, or we leave the Customs Union and we have a hard border. There is no compromise. When was that thoroughly debated? It wasn't, the focus was on that inflatable penis Boris Johnson and his battle bus and the hundreds of millions of pounds which the NHS was going to get, and that smarmy eel Nigel Farage (two of whose children hold German passports) generally sticking two fingers up at the European Parliament, deliberately generating, in fact, a great deal of the hostility we are now facing.
Now we think we can 'go it alone' - that is the irrational bit - this is a country which was economically shattered and stripped of most of its assets during two catastrophic World Wars, has never managed to rebuild, and has lived on four things
1. Inward investment
2. Financial Services
3. North Sea Oil
3. The ability to float its currency
The first of which is being thrown away, indeed is rapidly unravelling before our eyes, the second has never recovered from the credit crunch and is on government funded life support , the third is in decline and the fourth is largely dependent on the other three. The retail sector which was the economy for so long but in reality was only piggy-backing on selling cheap imports at high prices, is dying on its feet now that all that stuff is bought directly on the internet. Yet we are going to muddle by like we always have. Really?
The EU is far from perfect but it is not going to collapse because Germany is too strong to allow that to happen. What the UK has done is to drift through a combination of jingoism, an innate dislike of immigration, most of which incidentally comes from outside the EU, antagonism to an undoubtedly arrogant Commission, and an absolute refusal to face reality, into economic suicide. This wasn't planned, it just happened. I do not agree with Farage, it is not the EU which is at risk of sinking without sufficient lifeboats, it is Britain. We had the potential for a perfect situation, half out of the EU because of our currency, half in the EU because of the Customs Union, with the contribution deal Margaret Thatcher negotiated, and we have thrown it away.
Now we are back to the situation Harold Macmillan found himself in, excluded from the major regional trading bloc, without the Empire, and with a population who won't accept that the world has changed. Who are we going to trade with? India, America, China? They could buy and sell us, and probably will.
Edited by cardigankid on Monday 4th February 19:01
cardigankid said:
How about this -
A very great deal of the investment into the UK has been from Germany or other countries including Japan and America who wish to manufacture and sell into Europe.
The standard of debate during the referendum campaign was non-existent. It is patently clear for all the talk of 'backstops' and technological solutions' that we either stay in the Customs Union and have a soft border between Northern and Southern Ireland, or we leave the Customs Union and we have a hard border. There is no compromise. When was that thoroughly debated? It wasn't, the focus was on that inflatable penis Boris Johnson and his battle bus and the hundreds of millions of pounds which the NHS was going to get, and that smarmy eel Nigel Farage (two of whose children hold German passports) generally sticking two fingers up at the European Parliament, deliberately generating, in fact, a great deal of the hostility we are now facing.
Now we think we can 'go it alone' - that is the irrational bit - this is a country which was economically shattered and stripped of most of its assets during two catastrophic World Wars, has never managed to rebuild, and has lived on four things
1. Inward investment
2. Financial Services
3. North Sea Oil
3. The ability to float its currency
The first of which is being thrown away, indeed is rapidly unravelling before our eyes, the second has never recovered from the credit crunch and is on government funded life support , the third is in decline and the fourth is largely dependent on the other three. The retail sector which was the economy for so long but in reality was only piggy-backing on selling cheap imports at high prices, is dying on its feet now that all that stuff is bought directly on the internet. Yet we are going to muddle by like we always have. Really?
The EU is far from perfect but it is not going to collapse because Germany is too strong to allow that to happen. What the UK has done is to drift through a combination of jingoism, an innate dislike of immigration, most of which incidentally comes from outside the EU, antagonism to an undoubtedly arrogant Commission, and an absolute refusal to face reality, into economic suicide. This wasn't planned, it just happened. I do not agree with Farage, it is not the EU which is at risk of sinking without sufficient lifeboats, it is Britain. We had the potential for a perfect situation, half out of the EU because of our currency, half in the EU because of the Customs Union, with the contribution deal Margaret Thatcher negotiated, and we have thrown it away.
Now we are back to the situation Harold Macmillan found himself in, excluded from the major regional trading bloc, without the Empire, and with a population who won't accept that the world has changed. Who are we going to trade with? India, America, China? They could buy and sell us, and probably will.
We're only leaving the EU !!A very great deal of the investment into the UK has been from Germany or other countries including Japan and America who wish to manufacture and sell into Europe.
The standard of debate during the referendum campaign was non-existent. It is patently clear for all the talk of 'backstops' and technological solutions' that we either stay in the Customs Union and have a soft border between Northern and Southern Ireland, or we leave the Customs Union and we have a hard border. There is no compromise. When was that thoroughly debated? It wasn't, the focus was on that inflatable penis Boris Johnson and his battle bus and the hundreds of millions of pounds which the NHS was going to get, and that smarmy eel Nigel Farage (two of whose children hold German passports) generally sticking two fingers up at the European Parliament, deliberately generating, in fact, a great deal of the hostility we are now facing.
Now we think we can 'go it alone' - that is the irrational bit - this is a country which was economically shattered and stripped of most of its assets during two catastrophic World Wars, has never managed to rebuild, and has lived on four things
1. Inward investment
2. Financial Services
3. North Sea Oil
3. The ability to float its currency
The first of which is being thrown away, indeed is rapidly unravelling before our eyes, the second has never recovered from the credit crunch and is on government funded life support , the third is in decline and the fourth is largely dependent on the other three. The retail sector which was the economy for so long but in reality was only piggy-backing on selling cheap imports at high prices, is dying on its feet now that all that stuff is bought directly on the internet. Yet we are going to muddle by like we always have. Really?
The EU is far from perfect but it is not going to collapse because Germany is too strong to allow that to happen. What the UK has done is to drift through a combination of jingoism, an innate dislike of immigration, most of which incidentally comes from outside the EU, antagonism to an undoubtedly arrogant Commission, and an absolute refusal to face reality, into economic suicide. This wasn't planned, it just happened. I do not agree with Farage, it is not the EU which is at risk of sinking without sufficient lifeboats, it is Britain. We had the potential for a perfect situation, half out of the EU because of our currency, half in the EU because of the Customs Union, with the contribution deal Margaret Thatcher negotiated, and we have thrown it away.
Now we are back to the situation Harold Macmillan found himself in, excluded from the major regional trading bloc, without the Empire, and with a population who won't accept that the world has changed. Who are we going to trade with? India, America, China? They could buy and sell us, and probably will.
Edited by cardigankid on Monday 4th February 19:01
Goodness knows how you'd react to something far more serious.
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