Virgin lose West Coast franchise to First Group

[Apache]

The First guy, an American, was being grilled on local radio the other day, they plan to buy 106 new Pendalinos, the existing DMUs will be replaced with electric jobs, (Electrostars?) so I guess there will be a bunch of Voyagers on the market soon. I can't see how they can shave any more time off the existing routes without the govt allowing more EPS sections of track to be opened up, and they've been pretty anti to date.....and I can't see how any of that will happen without huge impact on fare prices

Edited by Apache on Tuesday 28th August 22:00

[toppstuff]

Ozzie Osmond said:

MadMullah said:

what i find unsurprising too is the complete disregard of the consumers who have been very happy with the service that virgin have provided

Oh for goodness sake. This is business, not some X-factor popularity contest.

Trust me, people with experience of First Great Western now them for what they are - a thoroughly dishonest and cynically run business. They ruined my quality of life for nearly a decade and it is the same for thousands of people.

It is a strong word to use and I don't feel the same way toward any other company, ever, but I can truthfully say that it is possible to utterly despise a company. Many people feel that way toward First Group. It is hard to put into words just how much pent up anger they can create in a normally mild mannered person, after several years of having to use them. They are scum.

[Rich1973]

The west coast main line. From Virgin to fked!!
What about the 150,000 odd strong petition. I thought it was a pledge of this government that any petition with more than 100,000 names had to be discussed in parliment. That seems to be being ignored at the moment...

[Negative Creep]

toppstuff said:

Trust me, people with experience of First Great Western now them for what they are - a thoroughly dishonest and cynically run business. They ruined my quality of life for nearly a decade and it is the same for thousands of people.

It is a strong word to use and I don't feel the same way toward any other company, ever, but I can truthfully say that it is possible to utterly despise a company. Many people feel that way toward First Group. It is hard to put into words just how much pent up anger they can create in a normally mild mannered person, after several years of having to use them. They are scum.

If they really were ruining your quality of life why did you keep using them?

[davepoth]

Apache said:

The First guy, an American, was being grilled on local radio the other day, they plan to buy 106 new Pendalinos, the existing DMUs will be replaced with electric jobs, (Electrostars?) so I guess there will be a bunch of Voyagers on the market soon. I can't see how they can shave any more time off the existing routes without the govt allowing more EPS sections of track to be opened up, and they've been pretty anti to date.....and I can't see how any of that will happen without huge impact on fare prices

Edited by Apache on Tuesday 28th August 22:00

I expect First will try and palm off those Voyagers elsewhere within their network, probably onto the Cotswold line or something, and then cascade everything down until they finally get to replace some of the awful DMUs I sometimes end up on going out of Bristol with something that actually has a toilet. We had the Voyagers on the Great Western when they were introduced, and they were, quite frankly, st. They were so badly received that First had to scramble around to get HSTs back to replace them.

[toppstuff]

Negative Creep said:

toppstuff said:

Trust me, people with experience of First Great Western now them for what they are - a thoroughly dishonest and cynically run business. They ruined my quality of life for nearly a decade and it is the same for thousands of people.

It is a strong word to use and I don't feel the same way toward any other company, ever, but I can truthfully say that it is possible to utterly despise a company. Many people feel that way toward First Group. It is hard to put into words just how much pent up anger they can create in a normally mild mannered person, after several years of having to use them. They are scum.

If they really were ruining your quality of life why did you keep using them?

They have a monopoly in the area I lived. Eventually I moved away from family and friends to another town 34 miles away , where we knew no one, solely so that I could commute on a different line with a different operator rather than endure First Group any longer.

[nc107]

Firsts fleet plan is to continue using the existing fleet and to order some more 125mph EMU's. Infact the 390's have Section 54 cover until 2022 so every bidder would have had to use them (all publicly available information, which is probably unfortunate for those who would rather make things up and pander to the Branson bandwagon). So please, no more nonsence about pacers and networkers being put on the WC.

Rather than guess one could read the publically available information that details the committments thay have made in their bid:

http://www.firstgroup.com/assets/pdfs/investors/pr...

http://www.firstgroup.com/corporate/our_company/we...

http://www.firstgroup.com/corporate/our_company/in...


A rather more balanced article in the FT, which starts to debunk a few Branson myths on the WC.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/36bbeeac-f1c5-11e1-bba3-...

Edited by nc107 on Thursday 30th August 10:34

[toppstuff]

nc107 said:

Firsts fleet plan is to continue using the existing fleet and to order some more 125mph EMU's. Infact the 390's have Section 54 cover until 2022 so every bidder would have had to use them (all publicly available information, which is probably unfortunate for those who would rather make things up and pander to the Branson bandwagon). So please, no more nonsence about pacers and networkers being put on the WC.

Rather than guess one could read the publically available information that details the committments thay have made in their bid:

http://www.firstgroup.com/assets/pdfs/investors/pr...

http://www.firstgroup.com/corporate/our_company/we...

http://www.firstgroup.com/corporate/our_company/in...


A rather more balanced article in the FT, which starts to debunk a few Branson myths on the WC.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/36bbeeac-f1c5-11e1-bba3-...

Edited by nc107 on Thursday 30th August 10:34

I don't for a single second believe any pledges made by First Group. They did'nt stand by their commitment to the Great Western Line. They continue to fail their customers.

Frankly, they will say whatever is necessary to win the contract. But they have no intention of standing by their promises. When it becomes self evident that the bid will ultimately be financially bad for them ( which it will ) they will cut and run and leave the taxpayer in the crapper. But only after running the service down to the barest minimum to try and extract maximum value for them out of it first, and screw the commuter.

This is the modus operandi of First Group. They have done it before, they will do it again.

[Apache]

nc107 said:

Firsts fleet plan is to continue using the existing fleet and to order some more 125mph EMU's. Infact the 390's have Section 54 cover until 2022 so every bidder would have had to use them (all publicly available information, which is probably unfortunate for those who would rather make things up and pander to the Branson bandwagon). So please, no more nonsence about pacers and networkers being put on the WC.

Rather than guess one could read the publically available information that details the committments thay have made in their bid:

http://www.firstgroup.com/assets/pdfs/investors/pr...


A rather more balanced article in the FT, which starts to debunk a few Branson myths on the WC.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/36bbeeac-f1c5-11e1-bba3-...

Who was the American guy being interviewed on LBC earlier this week? the only bit he said that contradicted the presentation was that the Voyagers would be replaced by electric sets....on the routes that were electrified of course

[nc107]

Tim O'Toole the CEO. The new trains will enable the Voyagers to be moved on to other routes on the West Coast, I imagine mainly on to the non-electrified parts of the route (out to Holyhead?). But they will remain in the West Coast franchise.

[Apache]

nc107 said:

Tim O'Toole the CEO. The new trains will enable the Voyagers to be moved on to other routes on the West Coast, I imagine mainly on to the non-electrified parts of the route (out to Holyhead?). But they will remain in the West Coast franchise.

ah, cheers

[vxr8mate]

Trains in the UK..............the best reason to buy a car!

[anonymous-user]

vxr8mate said:

Trains in the UK..............the best reason to buy a car!

Why ? sweeping statement, I find the local commuter routes & longer national routes all fairly punctual, just the pricing & cost of it sometimes it means it is cheaper by car but not always as quick or comfortable.

[Chrisw666]

speedyguy said:

Why ? sweeping statement, I find the local commuter routes & longer national routes all fairly punctual, just the pricing & cost of it sometimes it means it is cheaper by car but not always as quick or comfortable.

Long trips on your own are much easier and cheaper by rail unless you have no notice for them. I'd much rather sit in first class for less than 3 hours on a train from the NE to London, browsing the web or doing a bit of work when the alternative is at least 5 hours driving, dealing with heavy traffic and finding parking spaces.

[miniman]

Chrisw666 said:

speedyguy said:

Why ? sweeping statement, I find the local commuter routes & longer national routes all fairly punctual, just the pricing & cost of it sometimes it means it is cheaper by car but not always as quick or comfortable.

Long trips on your own are much easier and cheaper by rail unless you have no notice for them. I'd much rather sit in first class for less than 3 hours on a train from the NE to London, browsing the web or doing a bit of work when the alternative is at least 5 hours driving, dealing with heavy traffic and finding parking spaces.

Absolutely, I paid £23 for a first class ticket from Chippenham to Paddington last week, significantly more comfortable adn faster than driving. Of course, when it goes wrong on the Third Rate Western line, it goes properly wrong, but the same can be said for the M4...

[toppstuff]

miniman said:

Absolutely, I paid £23 for a first class ticket from Chippenham to Paddington last week, significantly more comfortable adn faster than driving. Of course, when it goes wrong on the Third Rate Western line, it goes properly wrong, but the same can be said for the M4...

That is the cheap price for a one way ticket booked well in advance and you have to travel on a specific train.

If you miss that train, or if you need even the smallest flexibility over your journey (to take into account being delayed in London for your return for example) the fare rises to £116.

On many occasions people get caught out with this, where for whatever reason you miss the train you are booked on. First Great Western will then refuse access to the train unless you upgrade to the full £116 ticket , which is of course is £232 for a return journey.

Do the journey regularly and you soon get shafted.

[miniman]

toppstuff said:

miniman said:

Absolutely, I paid £23 for a first class ticket from Chippenham to Paddington last week, significantly more comfortable adn faster than driving. Of course, when it goes wrong on the Third Rate Western line, it goes properly wrong, but the same can be said for the M4...

That is the cheap price for a one way ticket booked well in advance and you have to travel on a specific train.

If you miss that train, or if you need even the smallest flexibility over your journey (to take into account being delayed in London for your return for example) the fare rises to £116.

On many occasions people get caught out with this, where for whatever reason you miss the train you are booked on. First Great Western will then refuse access to the train unless you upgrade to the full £116 ticket , which is of course is £232 for a return journey.

Do the journey regularly and you soon get shafted.

I don't agree that if you do the journey regularly you'll be shafted - that is in your own hands ultimately. Whilst I agree that the cost of a fully flexible ticket is ludicrous, it is what it is, and there are other options. If you need total flexibility, that is what it costs.

What is the price of a turn-up-when-you-want flight to New York?

Just so there's no confusion as to my view of FGW - this is me: thirdratewestern.blogspot.com

[Otispunkmeyer]

All I know is I paid 17 euro for a trip from Berlin to the beaches in the north. That's about 15 quid and it was on the day 20 min before the train departed. Not sure if Duetsche Bahnhof is subsidised but that was excellent value. Clean comfortable train, on time to the second.

We pay too much for our trains. Full stop.

[miniman]

Otispunkmeyer said:

We pay too much for our trains. Full stop.

Hardly surprising when you look at how many companies are making a margin along the way.

[toppstuff]

miniman said:

I don't agree that if you do the journey regularly you'll be shafted - that is in your own hands ultimately. Whilst I agree that the cost of a fully flexible ticket is ludicrous, it is what it is, and there are other options. If you need total flexibility, that is what it costs.

What is the price of a turn-up-when-you-want flight to New York?

Just so there's no confusion as to my view of FGW - this is me: thirdratewestern.blogspot.com

I lost count of the number of times when a tube delay or a traffic jam meant that I missed a train by 2 minutes and then had to let FGW rob me of another £80 or more.

I now live in an area where I can get SWT into Waterloo. Trains are cheaper. Cleaner. More reliable, punctual. And the fares policy is much more transparent and fairer too. For example, an off peak return can be used anytime for the journey home ( impossible with FGW) and a super off peak return can be upgraded to a standard off peak for the princely of about £2. Again, this would never happen with FGW.

Moving house and getting SWT opened my eyes to the cynical exploitation carried out by FGW.