Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 2

[ViperPict]

Rollin said:

ViperPict said:

TheHeretic said:

The debates have been open for as long as you wanted. You do not need permission to talk about stuff by anyone in government on these forums, you know?

So, one question. Independence, or not. No talk of other powers... Interesting. Figured they would run it that way. As for the 16 & 17 year olds voting, I still think that is daft. Will they be able to vote on the other side of the election?

I believe the SNP want to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in all elections.

It's potentially a dangerous game for the Unionists to give the electorate no other option apart from independence than the status quo. All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.

poll said:

In October 2011 the polling firm began asking an additional question testing voters' views on whether Holyrood should be given greater powers short of independence.

That first poll showed a relatively even three-way split, with 33% for more powers, 29% for the status quo and 28% for independence. After some fluctuations, the latest poll puts the status quo top, with 35%, one point ahead of those seeking more powers, with independence languishing at 22%.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-...

Depends which poll you accept (displaying their futility). You can cherry pick a poll to back a particular stance. But there have been many in the last couple of years showing the status quo as least palatable to the Scottish electorate.

[simoid]

ViperPict said:

All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.

ViperPict said:

Depends which poll you accept (displaying their futility). You can cherry pick a poll to back a particular stance. But there have been many in the last couple of years showing the status quo as least palatable to the Scottish electorate.

Apologies, what does IYBSTAP mean?

[ViperPict]

simoid said:

ViperPict said:

All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.

ViperPict said:

Depends which poll you accept (displaying their futility). You can cherry pick a poll to back a particular stance. But there have been many in the last couple of years showing the status quo as least palatable to the Scottish electorate.

Apologies, what does IYBSTAP mean?

If You Believe Such Things As Polls...

[ViperPict]

Caulkhead said:

ViperPict said:

TheHeretic said:

The debates have been open for as long as you wanted. You do not need permission to talk about stuff by anyone in government on these forums, you know?

So, one question. Independence, or not. No talk of other powers... Interesting. Figured they would run it that way. As for the 16 & 17 year olds voting, I still think that is daft. Will they be able to vote on the other side of the election?

I believe the SNP want to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in all elections.

It's potentially a dangerous game for the Unionists to give the electorate no other option apart from independence than the status quo. All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.

It's equally as dangerous for the SNP to rely on 16 and 17 year old voters:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2207207/Sc...

Fail article alert!!!

[Rollin]

ViperPict said:

simoid said:

ViperPict said:

All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.

ViperPict said:

Depends which poll you accept (displaying their futility). You can cherry pick a poll to back a particular stance. But there have been many in the last couple of years showing the status quo as least palatable to the Scottish electorate.

Apologies, what does IYBSTAP mean?

If You Believe Such Things As Picts...

EFA.

[ViperPict]

Rollin said:

ViperPict said:

simoid said:

ViperPict said:

All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.

ViperPict said:

Depends which poll you accept (displaying their futility). You can cherry pick a poll to back a particular stance. But there have been many in the last couple of years showing the status quo as least palatable to the Scottish electorate.

Apologies, what does IYBSTAP mean?

If You Believe Such Things As Picts...

EFA.

They are hard to understand having an indecipherably complex language...

[thinfourth2]

ViperPict said:

I've never said the YES campaign will win the referendum. I have said that they have effectively won already in the sense that this whole issue has sharply focussed Westminster eyes on Scotland, perhaps for the first time ever. And there have already been concessions to more devolved power with more still to come...

Another thing we agree on

The YES lot have bugger all chance

[Edinburger]

thinfourth2 said:

ViperPict said:

I've never said the YES campaign will win the referendum. I have said that they have effectively won already in the sense that this whole issue has sharply focussed Westminster eyes on Scotland, perhaps for the first time ever. And there have already been concessions to more devolved power with more still to come...

Another thing we agree on

The YES lot have bugger all chance

That's a rather premature statement. Especially given that political parties have been showcasing their 'one Britain' preference this week.

Mr Salmond and Mr Cameron meet on Monday, and then according to the BBC, the game really starts...

[thinfourth2]

Edinburger said:

thinfourth2 said:

ViperPict said:

I've never said the YES campaign will win the referendum. I have said that they have effectively won already in the sense that this whole issue has sharply focussed Westminster eyes on Scotland, perhaps for the first time ever. And there have already been concessions to more devolved power with more still to come...

Another thing we agree on

The YES lot have bugger all chance

That's a rather premature statement. Especially given that political parties have been showcasing their 'one Britain' preference this week.

Mr Salmond and Mr Cameron meet on Monday, and then according to the BBC, the game really starts...

Well nows your chance

Bet your house on a YES vote

[TheHeretic]

Edinburger said:

That's a rather premature statement. Especially given that political parties have been showcasing their 'one Britain' preference this week.

Mr Salmond and Mr Cameron meet on Monday, and then according to the BBC, the game really starts...

By "game starts" does that mean people will have the all clear to discuss stuff, or is that on another timeline?

[Wombat3]

TheHeretic said:

Edinburger said:

That's a rather premature statement. Especially given that political parties have been showcasing their 'one Britain' preference this week.

Mr Salmond and Mr Cameron meet on Monday, and then according to the BBC, the game really starts...

By "game starts" does that mean people will have the all clear to discuss stuff, or is that on another timeline?

Prepare to be drowned in an avalanche of bullst & fairy dust

[Caulkhead]

ViperPict said:

Caulkhead said:

Edinburger said:

Caulkhead said:

Edinburger said:

Caulkhead said:

Edinburger said:

Caulkhead said:

Rollin said:

Support for independence dropping even further, down to 28%. Will only get worse for Salmond when the courts force him to stop hiding information.

http://m.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-n...

Cue a chorus from VP and ED decrying polls and the biased rag that printed it. As usual.

I'm not decrying that. I show a passing interest in the polls but that's it. Views are largely irellevant until information is published and campaigns start. And although The Scotsman isn't in favour of independenc it's still a decent read.

Individually polls mean little, the trend many show however, is unwise to ignore.

The steady reduction in support for independence is not because independence is inherently bad for Scotland, it is because of the way the SNP rides rough shod over facts and the electorate. Mark my words, it is the SNP that will cost Scotland independence, nothing else.

I don't deny that's a contributing factor but I think the year of 'Britishness' must also impact the general view.

Indeed it did, and the SNP's inability to see this and react accordingly supports my point.

The Scots I know are generally financially conservative (small C) and don't make important decisions at the last minute and without a thorough discussion of all the facts and ramifications. Somebody really ought to explain this to the SNP.

Well we've got two years to have a thorough discussion of all the facts and ramifications.

Then the SNP is almost already out of time.

Only if Scotland votes YES...

Nope, either way. The SNP have already royally cocked up this opportunity, only a fool would trust them if Scotland ever got a second chance.

[Caulkhead]

ViperPict said:

Caulkhead said:

ViperPict said:

TheHeretic said:

The debates have been open for as long as you wanted. You do not need permission to talk about stuff by anyone in government on these forums, you know?

So, one question. Independence, or not. No talk of other powers... Interesting. Figured they would run it that way. As for the 16 & 17 year olds voting, I still think that is daft. Will they be able to vote on the other side of the election?

I believe the SNP want to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in all elections.

It's potentially a dangerous game for the Unionists to give the electorate no other option apart from independence than the status quo. All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.

It's equally as dangerous for the SNP to rely on 16 and 17 year old voters:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2207207/Sc...

Fail article alert!!!

As I posted a couple of pages ago - standard VP MO, decry any poll and the paper publishing it. I must be able to read minds.

It's almost worth Scotland failing to gain independence just to watch VP blame everyone.

[ViperPict]

Caulkhead said:

ViperPict said:

Caulkhead said:

ViperPict said:

TheHeretic said:

The debates have been open for as long as you wanted. You do not need permission to talk about stuff by anyone in government on these forums, you know?

So, one question. Independence, or not. No talk of other powers... Interesting. Figured they would run it that way. As for the 16 & 17 year olds voting, I still think that is daft. Will they be able to vote on the other side of the election?

I believe the SNP want to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in all elections.

It's potentially a dangerous game for the Unionists to give the electorate no other option apart from independence than the status quo. All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.

It's equally as dangerous for the SNP to rely on 16 and 17 year old voters:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2207207/Sc...

Fail article alert!!!

As I posted a couple of pages ago - standard VP MO, decry any poll and the paper publishing it. I must be able to read minds.

It's almost worth Scotland failing to gain independence just to watch VP blame everyone.

I will never apologise for dismissing a Daily Fail article.

Periodical subscriptions are the measure of a man.

[Edinburger]

Caulkhead said:

Nope, either way. The SNP have already royally cocked up this opportunity, only a fool would trust them if Scotland ever got a second chance.

How can you say that? The campaign has barely started and the referendum terms have only just been agreed!

[Wombat3]

Edinburger said:

How can you say that? The campaign has barely started and the referendum terms have only just been agreed!

bks, the campaign has been going on for years.

There is nothing new and substantive to come out - the SNP/Nats would just like everyone to think there is because it maintains interest in the thing. Everything and anything of any substance that is really material to the decision is already known. Politicians of both sides will try & spin the thing to the ends of the earth but the reality is it will probably come down to money - that is where most voters will end up making their decision - just as they do for general elections.

Stuff about what happens to Faslane etc or how its dealt with is just detail & isn't likely to change the fundamental view that a voter will hold on the matter & most of them can't get their heads around macro economics anyway.

Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 10th October 17:18

[ViperPict]

doogz said:

ViperPict said:

I will never apologise for dismissing a Daily Fail article.

Periodical subscriptions are the measure of a man.

Cheers, 'LOL' is overused, but I really did laugh out loud at that one.

I never made that up. It is a saying.

[Wombat3]

Guam said:

ViperPict said:

I believe the SNP want to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in all elections.

It's potentially a dangerous game for the Unionists to give the electorate no other option apart from independence than the status quo. All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.

Not a dangerous thing for the majority in England though, you could have dogs cats hamsters and goldfish voting for all I care, as long as its a Yes/No question <no fudging>
Just do it and, whatever the result, STFU already!

Fixed that for ya!

[ViperPict]

Wombat3 said:

Guam said:

ViperPict said:

I believe the SNP want to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in all elections.

It's potentially a dangerous game for the Unionists to give the electorate no other option apart from independence than the status quo. All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.

Not a dangerous thing for the majority in England though, you could have dogs cats hamsters and goldfish voting for all I care, as long as its a Yes/No question <no fudging>
Just do it and, whatever the result, STFU already!

Fixed that for ya!

Do you think that a NO vote will result in independence supporters just forgetting about it?

[TheHeretic]

ViperPict said:

Do you think that a NO vote will result in independence supporters just forgetting about it?

Do they not like democracy?