Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 2
Discussion
A real Scottish hero and reformer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...
First Minister Alex Salmond sent his sympathies to Mr Fairweather's family and friends.
He said: "I got to know Clive well as Chief Inspector of Prisons through our joint interest in supporting the pioneering prison regime at Peterhead which was then under threat of closure.
As Chief Inspector of Prisons he brought to the job a unique combination of humanity and common sense which demonstrated how an enlightened prison regime would operate in the public interest.
I will very much miss his contribution to Scottish public life.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...
First Minister Alex Salmond sent his sympathies to Mr Fairweather's family and friends.
He said: "I got to know Clive well as Chief Inspector of Prisons through our joint interest in supporting the pioneering prison regime at Peterhead which was then under threat of closure.
As Chief Inspector of Prisons he brought to the job a unique combination of humanity and common sense which demonstrated how an enlightened prison regime would operate in the public interest.
I will very much miss his contribution to Scottish public life.
Caulkhead said:
barky said:
thinfourth2 said:
We can guess
that's not a flag of Britain !!! that's union flag that includes elements of NI flagI'm just posting it to annoy someone who finds it offensive
ViperPict said:
Not really, and nor is it complicated.The referendum is on independence, if its a yes vote then we all deal with that.
If its a no vote then Scotland stys in the UK. At that point what a very small percentage (1-2%) of the UK population (i.e. the Devo-maxers) want is irrelevant. Scotland gets what its given within the context of staying in the UK & its no more entitled to any special treatment than any other part of the country will be.
By voting no Scotland will be stating that it accepts its place in the union on an equal footing with every other part of the union. Anyone banging the "but we're special" drum can f
k off at that point.Its dead easy this - in or out.
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Not really, and nor is it complicated.The referendum is on independence, if its a yes vote then we all deal with that.
If its a no vote then Scotland stys in the UK. At that point what a very small percentage (1-2%) of the UK population (i.e. the Devo-maxers) want is irrelevant. Scotland gets what its given within the context of staying in the UK & its no more entitled to any special treatment than any other part of the country will be.
By voting no Scotland will be stating that it accepts its place in the union on an equal footing with every other part of the union. Anyone banging the "but we're special" drum can f
k off at that point.Its dead easy this - in or out.
ViperPict said:
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Not really, and nor is it complicated.The referendum is on independence, if its a yes vote then we all deal with that.
If its a no vote then Scotland stys in the UK. At that point what a very small percentage (1-2%) of the UK population (i.e. the Devo-maxers) want is irrelevant. Scotland gets what its given within the context of staying in the UK & its no more entitled to any special treatment than any other part of the country will be.
By voting no Scotland will be stating that it accepts its place in the union on an equal footing with every other part of the union. Anyone banging the "but we're special" drum can f
k off at that point.Its dead easy this - in or out.
Rollin said:
ViperPict said:
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Not really, and nor is it complicated.The referendum is on independence, if its a yes vote then we all deal with that.
If its a no vote then Scotland stys in the UK. At that point what a very small percentage (1-2%) of the UK population (i.e. the Devo-maxers) want is irrelevant. Scotland gets what its given within the context of staying in the UK & its no more entitled to any special treatment than any other part of the country will be.
By voting no Scotland will be stating that it accepts its place in the union on an equal footing with every other part of the union. Anyone banging the "but we're special" drum can f
k off at that point.Its dead easy this - in or out.
Have you listened to it? It is pretty unbiased to either side of the debate but a warning re. the binary nature of the vote when there are a lot who would like a middle option...
ViperPict said:
Rollin said:
ViperPict said:
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Not really, and nor is it complicated.The referendum is on independence, if its a yes vote then we all deal with that.
If its a no vote then Scotland stys in the UK. At that point what a very small percentage (1-2%) of the UK population (i.e. the Devo-maxers) want is irrelevant. Scotland gets what its given within the context of staying in the UK & its no more entitled to any special treatment than any other part of the country will be.
By voting no Scotland will be stating that it accepts its place in the union on an equal footing with every other part of the union. Anyone banging the "but we're special" drum can f
k off at that point.Its dead easy this - in or out.
Have you listened to it? It is pretty unbiased to either side of the debate but a warning re. the binary nature of the vote when there are a lot who would like a middle option...
In or out first and then , if you wanted to try & have a second referendum re devo max then you do that as a seperate issue - but in that circumstance it would be entirely correct that the whole of the UK gets a vote on that issue. Otherwise it would be a bit like one department in a company having the ability to vote itself a pay rise.
Its not hard this, really it isn't.
The good prof was only pointing out the bleedin obvious. How you deal with the issues are entirely a different matter. While a decision on independence may be a Scottish decision, a decision on having Devo Max as part of the UK (and specifically tax raising powers) is decidely not.
Edited by Wombat3 on Sunday 14th October 23:36
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Rollin said:
ViperPict said:
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Not really, and nor is it complicated.The referendum is on independence, if its a yes vote then we all deal with that.
If its a no vote then Scotland stys in the UK. At that point what a very small percentage (1-2%) of the UK population (i.e. the Devo-maxers) want is irrelevant. Scotland gets what its given within the context of staying in the UK & its no more entitled to any special treatment than any other part of the country will be.
By voting no Scotland will be stating that it accepts its place in the union on an equal footing with every other part of the union. Anyone banging the "but we're special" drum can f
k off at that point.Its dead easy this - in or out.
Have you listened to it? It is pretty unbiased to either side of the debate but a warning re. the binary nature of the vote when there are a lot who would like a middle option...
In or out first and then , if you wanted to try & have a second referendum re devo max then you do that as a seperate issue - but in that circumstance it would be entirely correct that the whole of the UK gets a vote on that issue. Otherwise it would be a bit like one department in a company having the ability to vote itself a pay rise.
Its not hard this, really it isn't.
The good prof was only pointing out the bleedin obvious. How you deal with the issues are entirely a different matter. While a decision on independence may be a Scottish decision, a decision on having Devo Max as part of the UK (and specifically tax raising powers) is decidely not.
Edited by Wombat3 on Sunday 14th October 23:36
thinfourth2 said:
Caulkhead said:
barky said:
thinfourth2 said:
We can guess
that's not a flag of Britain !!! that's union flag that includes elements of NI flagI'm just posting it to annoy someone who finds it offensive
ViperPict said:
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Rollin said:
ViperPict said:
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Not really, and nor is it complicated.The referendum is on independence, if its a yes vote then we all deal with that.
If its a no vote then Scotland stys in the UK. At that point what a very small percentage (1-2%) of the UK population (i.e. the Devo-maxers) want is irrelevant. Scotland gets what its given within the context of staying in the UK & its no more entitled to any special treatment than any other part of the country will be.
By voting no Scotland will be stating that it accepts its place in the union on an equal footing with every other part of the union. Anyone banging the "but we're special" drum can f
k off at that point.Its dead easy this - in or out.
Have you listened to it? It is pretty unbiased to either side of the debate but a warning re. the binary nature of the vote when there are a lot who would like a middle option...
In or out first and then , if you wanted to try & have a second referendum re devo max then you do that as a seperate issue - but in that circumstance it would be entirely correct that the whole of the UK gets a vote on that issue. Otherwise it would be a bit like one department in a company having the ability to vote itself a pay rise.
Its not hard this, really it isn't.
The good prof was only pointing out the bleedin obvious. How you deal with the issues are entirely a different matter. While a decision on independence may be a Scottish decision, a decision on having Devo Max as part of the UK (and specifically tax raising powers) is decidely not.
Edited by Wombat3 on Sunday 14th October 23:36
ViperPict said:
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Rollin said:
ViperPict said:
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Not really, and nor is it complicated.The referendum is on independence, if its a yes vote then we all deal with that.
If its a no vote then Scotland stys in the UK. At that point what a very small percentage (1-2%) of the UK population (i.e. the Devo-maxers) want is irrelevant. Scotland gets what its given within the context of staying in the UK & its no more entitled to any special treatment than any other part of the country will be.
By voting no Scotland will be stating that it accepts its place in the union on an equal footing with every other part of the union. Anyone banging the "but we're special" drum can f
k off at that point.Its dead easy this - in or out.
Have you listened to it? It is pretty unbiased to either side of the debate but a warning re. the binary nature of the vote when there are a lot who would like a middle option...
In or out first and then , if you wanted to try & have a second referendum re devo max then you do that as a seperate issue - but in that circumstance it would be entirely correct that the whole of the UK gets a vote on that issue. Otherwise it would be a bit like one department in a company having the ability to vote itself a pay rise.
Its not hard this, really it isn't.
The good prof was only pointing out the bleedin obvious. How you deal with the issues are entirely a different matter. While a decision on independence may be a Scottish decision, a decision on having Devo Max as part of the UK (and specifically tax raising powers) is decidely not.
Edited by Wombat3 on Sunday 14th October 23:36
If you are suggesting that a simple yes or no vote is too difficult an option to cope with then there isn't much anyone Is going to be able to do about that!
The idea that there should be another option of staying within the UK but with special status or privileges is risable.
And yes ,I know you think you are special & that you already have the SG, but the truth behind that is that in real terms it can't fart unless Westminster says so, but it keeps you quiet more or less
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Rollin said:
ViperPict said:
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Not really, and nor is it complicated.The referendum is on independence, if its a yes vote then we all deal with that.
If its a no vote then Scotland stys in the UK. At that point what a very small percentage (1-2%) of the UK population (i.e. the Devo-maxers) want is irrelevant. Scotland gets what its given within the context of staying in the UK & its no more entitled to any special treatment than any other part of the country will be.
By voting no Scotland will be stating that it accepts its place in the union on an equal footing with every other part of the union. Anyone banging the "but we're special" drum can f
k off at that point.Its dead easy this - in or out.
Have you listened to it? It is pretty unbiased to either side of the debate but a warning re. the binary nature of the vote when there are a lot who would like a middle option...
In or out first and then , if you wanted to try & have a second referendum re devo max then you do that as a seperate issue - but in that circumstance it would be entirely correct that the whole of the UK gets a vote on that issue. Otherwise it would be a bit like one department in a company having the ability to vote itself a pay rise.
Its not hard this, really it isn't.
The good prof was only pointing out the bleedin obvious. How you deal with the issues are entirely a different matter. While a decision on independence may be a Scottish decision, a decision on having Devo Max as part of the UK (and specifically tax raising powers) is decidely not.
Edited by Wombat3 on Sunday 14th October 23:36
If you are suggesting that a simple yes or no vote is too difficult an option to cope with then there isn't much anyone Is going to be able to do about that!
The idea that there should be another option of staying within the UK but with special status or privileges is risable.
And yes ,I know you think you are special & that you already have the SG, but the truth behind that is that in real terms it can't fart unless Westminster says so, but it keeps you quiet more or less
The fact that the referendum is happening at all is proof that the SG has got Westminster by the balls to some degree. In the past all unionist parties had stated that a referendum on independence was fundamentally against their position on the future of the UK. Now look where we are...
ViperPict said:
No, it's not me that proposed it but a professor of politics whose opinion, with all due respect, trumps yours in my book.
The fact that the referendum is happening at all is proof that the SG has got Westminster by the balls to some degree. In the past all unionist parties had stated that a referendum on independence was fundamentally against their position on the future of the UK. Now look where we are...
Right there is your wishful thinking. Westminster is allowing this to take place because they are damn certain they will win. All current indicators suggest they are right. They could just as easily carry on ignoring the SNP for as long as they liked. The SG has no real leverage over London.To suggest otherwise is fantasy island stuff.The fact that the referendum is happening at all is proof that the SG has got Westminster by the balls to some degree. In the past all unionist parties had stated that a referendum on independence was fundamentally against their position on the future of the UK. Now look where we are...
Meanwhile the great leader (AS) is being found wanting on pretty much a daily basis. He is being exposed all over the shop with his inventive answers on the EU to his hiding information to his failure to answer simple economic questions (much like yourself even). Ultimately Cameron is going to have him for breakfast.
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
No, it's not me that proposed it but a professor of politics whose opinion, with all due respect, trumps yours in my book.
The fact that the referendum is happening at all is proof that the SG has got Westminster by the balls to some degree. In the past all unionist parties had stated that a referendum on independence was fundamentally against their position on the future of the UK. Now look where we are...
Right there is your wishful thinking. Westminster is allowing this to take place because they are damn certain they will win. All current indicators suggest they are right. They could just as easily carry on ignoring the SNP for as long as they liked. The SG has no real leverage over London.To suggest otherwise is fantasy island stuff.The fact that the referendum is happening at all is proof that the SG has got Westminster by the balls to some degree. In the past all unionist parties had stated that a referendum on independence was fundamentally against their position on the future of the UK. Now look where we are...
Meanwhile the great leader (AS) is being found wanting on pretty much a daily basis. He is being exposed all over the shop with his inventive answers on the EU to his hiding information to his failure to answer simple economic questions (much like yourself even). Ultimately Cameron is going to have him for breakfast.
Michael Forsyth has publically said that DC has acted like Pontius Pilate in dictating the terms of the referendum, calling it a 'walkover for the SNP'.
Right at the beginning of this debate there was much bravado from Unionist posters here about the referendum details would be dictated by Westminster. Well, guess what? It's the SNP's proposed date and question, not Westminster's!
ViperPict said:
No, it's not me that proposed it but a professor of politics whose opinion, with all due respect, trumps yours in my book.
The fact that the referendum is happening at all is proof that the SG has got Westminster by the balls to some degree. In the past all unionist parties had stated that a referendum on independence was fundamentally against their position on the future of the UK. Now look where we are...
God you are deludedThe fact that the referendum is happening at all is proof that the SG has got Westminster by the balls to some degree. In the past all unionist parties had stated that a referendum on independence was fundamentally against their position on the future of the UK. Now look where we are...
2 posible outcomes
A yes vote = Cameron wins as he has got rid of a large chunk of labour voters
A No vote = Cameron wins as he has got one over the SNP
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