Bring Back Death Penalty

[pacman1]

NailedOn said:

pacman1 said:

nunattax said:

FOOL, BIRMINGHAM SIX ,GUILDFORD FOUR------RING ANY BELLS

Colin Stagg.

Beware the police.
They have been known to make mistakes and they have been known to be corrupt.
They are very bad at admitting to their errors.
Our lives depend on them in many ways but adding the death penalty to the risks of police wrong-doing is not a smart move.

Oi, sunshine, you have a valid point, but don't go changing my posts and putting words in my mouth without reference to what I said, however flippant.
A simple strike thru of my op with your alteration would be fine.
This is an emotive subject, and there are some feckwits on PH, and I ain't one for gettin' embroiled unless it's of my choosing. Capiche?

[Steameh]

Murder, either state sanctioned or otherwise is deplorable. As a society we are better than that.

[Killer2005]

I'm another No voter. I really don't think there is a place for it in our society.

[caziques]

There have been a number of cases in NZ over the past few years showing how the police will do anything to secure a conviction when they have predetermined guilt.

State sanctioned killing only makes thing worse, it should never be allowed.

Allowing people like Fred West on the other hand to end their own life is a different matter.

[thinfourth2]

Kermit power said:

Murder rates in the US are higher in most of the states wit the death penalty than they are in those without the death penalty. Whatever else that says, it would suggest that the death penalty is no deterrent to murder.

I know given the choice between life in prison or a death sentence i would prefer the death penalty

And i'm not alone

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Sprouts]

No !

[TheHeretic]

thinfourth2 said:

I know given the choice between life in prison or a death sentence i would prefer the death penalty

And i'm not alone

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

So given it is supposed to be a punishment, life in prison is the worse thing, then?

[XJSJohn]

Well, we string them up here if they are very naughty (murder, drug smugging) and it seems to have an effect, you certainly don't see many violent crimes or the like here, so it is a deterrent.

Every Friday at dawn we gets a hanging!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in...

[TheHeretic]

XJSJohn said:

Well, we string them up here if they are very naughty (murder, drug smugging) and it seems to have an effect, you certainly don't see many violent crimes or the like here, so it is a deterrent.

Every Friday at dawn we gets a hanging!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in...

How many we're innocent? Do they even bother checking? I can't even find any stats for death sentence exonerations for Singapore.

[Digga]

Kermit power said:

AJS- said:

Digga said:

Again, I'd bring the Anuj Bidve killing as a case in point. The killer did it, no question and showed no remorse - in fact showed contempt, laughing during sentencing. really, what's the point of keeping this sort of individual?

Would he have behaved the same knowing that he would face death if convicted though? Knowing such behaviour would be practically suicide. As things currently stand he got a 30 year sentence, no joke but part of his gangster identity, almost a lifestyle choice by the sounds of it.

Murder rates in the US are higher in most of the states wit the death penalty than they are in those without the death penalty. Whatever else that says, it would suggest that the death penalty is no deterrent to murder.

I've said before and also provided statistics (yesterday @ 13:06) from other countries which illustrate the point, comparing us to the USA and any other death-penalty country's murder rate to another, non-death penalty country's is very, very misleading and disengenious.

USA and Canada have similar gun laws and vastly different gun-related crime rates.

ETA I see another poster has put a very interesting graph from the US too which suggests societal change causes.

Edited by Digga on Friday 5th October 08:18

[XJSJohn]

Didn't say I agreed with it, but you certainly don't get the same levels of violent crime here than in other places so it does seem to be effective.

On another note, a bit of trivia. It I live opposite the hangman!

[Digga]

XJSJohn said:

On another note, a bit of trivia. It I live opposite the hangman!

Don't ding his car or sling your lawn clippings over his hedge.

[Kermit power]

Digga said:

Kermit power said:

AJS- said:

Digga said:

Again, I'd bring the Anuj Bidve killing as a case in point. The killer did it, no question and showed no remorse - in fact showed contempt, laughing during sentencing. really, what's the point of keeping this sort of individual?

Would he have behaved the same knowing that he would face death if convicted though? Knowing such behaviour would be practically suicide. As things currently stand he got a 30 year sentence, no joke but part of his gangster identity, almost a lifestyle choice by the sounds of it.

Murder rates in the US are higher in most of the states wit the death penalty than they are in those without the death penalty. Whatever else that says, it would suggest that the death penalty is no deterrent to murder.

I've said before and also provided statistics (yesterday @ 13:06) from other countries which illustrate the point, comparing us to the USA and any other death-penalty country's murder rate to another, non-death penalty country's is very, very misleading and disengenious.

USA and Canada have similar gun laws and vastly different gun-related crime rates.

I wasn't comparing us to the US or countries to countries. I was comparing the States of the US with one and other.

The graph below shows the average murder rate per 100,000 people in US States with the death penalty compared to those without it.



As you can see, whilst murder rates in both types of state are declining, the actual rate has been higher in the death penalty states for every single year of the study, and the gap between DP and non DP states is growing larger as time goes on.

In fact, of the top 20 states in which you're likely to be murdered, only 2 of them don't have the death penalty.

Fair enough, the information comes from an anti-death penalty organisation, but you can't argue with raw statistics, and you certainly can't argue away such a stark difference as being down to other external circumstances.

[otolith]

I'm not in favour of the death penalty, but it does occur to me that you have to ask whether those states have a high murder rate because they have retained the death penalty or whether they have retained the death penalty because they have a high murder rate.

[superkartracer]

What about a life of slow torture instead?

[Digga]

otolith said:

I'm not in favour of the death penalty, but it does occur to me that you have to ask whether those states have a high murder rate because they have retained the death penalty or whether they have retained the death penalty because they have a high murder rate.

^This.

If there's no crime in Bumblefk then there's no point in bothering with the DP and all it entails. Meanwhile, in downtown Detroit, Michigan state...

[TheHeretic]

So as a deterrent?

[Pothole]

nunattax said:

danjama said:

With todays technological equipment and lengthy investigations, using forensics etc, I see no reason why it should not be brought back, if we are absolutely sure of a persons guilt. And there is very little chance of false conviction in this day and age.

Absolutely I would want it brought back.

FOOL, BIRMINGHAM SIX ,GUILDFORD FOUR------RING ANY BELLS

Probably. Shrapnel gets everywhere.

[kuzushi]

nickbee said:

If there was a shred of evidence to suggest that death penalties significantly reduced murder rates, I could see the justification for wanting to instigate a debate.

I recall reading a report that the effectiveness of the death penalty as a deterrant was inversely proportional to the length of time spent on death row, ie. in jurisdictions where there was a relatively short delay between conviction and execution the effect was a reduction in the murder rate, whereas where there was a long time spent on death row the deterrant effect was very much reduced.

In summary, the death penalty is an effective deterrant when carried out promptly.

[TheHeretic]

kuzushi said:

In summary, the death penalty is an effective deterrant when carried out promptly.

Would you want to live in such a country?