Bring Back Death Penalty
Poll: Bring Back Death Penalty
Total Members Polled: 513
Discussion
TheHeretic said:
otolith said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
You could begin by googling names such as Myra Hindley, Ian Brady, Peter Sutcliffe and work on from there.
Here are a few more names of interest, perhaps less well known;Mark Shirley
Derek Johnson
Mark Goldstraw
Joseph Ashman
Bedazzled said:
I think it's a perfectly valid comparison in terms of innocent people who would be killed in error while pursuing a just cause. It would be absurd to suggest we should not assist a persecuted population escape acts of genocide for example, just because a few innocent people might be killed in the conflict. It's the bigger picture.
The only difference is the numbers; it's personal when you face an individual in a courtroom and it's down to you the jury, not some anonymous smart bomb on the other side of the world. Personally I would have no problem in being dispassionate about it.
No, the difference is not just in the numbers. It is far more fundamental than that. The only difference is the numbers; it's personal when you face an individual in a courtroom and it's down to you the jury, not some anonymous smart bomb on the other side of the world. Personally I would have no problem in being dispassionate about it.
When you kill in a war, you kill in pursuit of an end goal which you believe to be justified. Many civilians died at the hands of bomber command, for example, but that wasn't for revenge. That was to try and destroy the German war machine, bring the war to an earlier end, ultimately saving innocent lives.
What, on the other hand, does the return of the death penalty do?
It might prevent those people from killing again,but locking them up for life would do that.
It might provide a deterrent, but US figures tend to suggest it won't.
It won't prevent the initial killing, because they wouldn't be on trial for murder without the original victim being killed.
The only thing the death penalty promises is eye for an eye revenge, and personally, I don't want to live in a society which turns kills for revenge. It's totally twisted, and thankfully the majority of our society agrees with me.
otolith said:
If we are making lists of people we are sure are guilty (and hence can execute), all the convicted murderers who don't make the list need to be immediately released and compensated for their false imprisonment.
Just quoting this again as a voice of sanity in a ridiculous thread. I'm against the death penalty for the simple reason that I don't believe it's right to take the lives of others. It really doesn't get any more complicated than that for me!
Bedazzled said:
Well, it would prevent scenes like this for a start. The Lockerbie bomber enjoyed 3 years of freedom after being released, apparently on death's door. I wonder how the families of the 270 people who died at his hands felt about that little celebration?
Punishment is an integral part of the justice system; no need to press those "what about the poor little girl?" emotive buttons with words like revenge.
Really?? You really want to introduce one of the dodgiest convictions of the 20th century as an argument in favour of the death penalty? Punishment is an integral part of the justice system; no need to press those "what about the poor little girl?" emotive buttons with words like revenge.
Witnesses claiming the FBI tried to bribe them, others admitting to lying during their testimony, the identification of Al Megrahi by a key witness days after seeing a photo of him in a magazine article about the bombing?
Did Libya carry out the bombing? Without doubt. Was Al Megrahi a scapegoat served up to take the fall for the real bomber? We may never know, but he certainly makes a great poster child for the case against capital punishment.
Eric Mc said:
dandarez said:
Eric Mc said:
At least a miscatrriage of justice which resulted in a prison sentence can be corrected.
When the state has killed somebody they shouldn't have - it's a bit late.
I hope AJS' DNA isn't sitting in a petrie dish stored in some sloppilly managed 'privately run' forensic lab.
More accurate?When the state has killed somebody they shouldn't have - it's a bit late.
I hope AJS' DNA isn't sitting in a petrie dish stored in some sloppilly managed 'privately run' forensic lab.
Another issue to the death penalty is the executioner, reading up on a few of them they were not happy well balanced individuals in the end, alcoholism and suicide
Kermit power said:
Digga said:
A good point - which may lead us back to andymadmak's suggestion of proper zero tolerance policing?
The anecdotals on ZT are interseting. Think of the 'sorts' you see every day, parking on double-yellows or disabled spaces, chucking litter out of their car windows, driving without insurance etc. etc. and wonder what else they're up to - a lot of them have the Crimewatch look. Seriously.
I'd quite happily have zero tolerance policing on that sort of thing, but the New York experience doesn't support it. It suggests that ZT got the credit for being launched just at the right time. Crime figures had already improved significantly by the time it was launched, but not by so much that it had already overcome people's concerns about it!The anecdotals on ZT are interseting. Think of the 'sorts' you see every day, parking on double-yellows or disabled spaces, chucking litter out of their car windows, driving without insurance etc. etc. and wonder what else they're up to - a lot of them have the Crimewatch look. Seriously.
The biggest argument against the death penalty is that for a percentage of murders something will have driven them to it, what happens if you catch the person who murders the adult who abused them as a child? The death penalty may see them executed before the other victims came forward with the mitigation.
People who say it will cost less, what about the inevitable huge payouts that will have to be made when the above comes out and the Murder turns out to have been manslaughter
Bedazzled said:
Yes I do, in fact I think it's humane in certain circumstances (euthanasia). I think people get carried away with the sanctity of human life. Was it ok to kill the Nazis? Or would you have let them run amok? Is it ok if someone else pulls the trigger for you? Sometimes it's necessary, that's just the world we live in. You can hide them away in prison for all eternity if you wish (out of sight, out of mind) but it's just abdication of responsibility, imho.
What about the guy who ambushed and killed the two young women police officers in Manchester? Do you think he deserves to live out the rest of his life in relative comfort? Personally I think he should be put down and be done with it. Either that or give him a wooden stick to clear landmines in Afghanistan.
I suppose my question was a touch simplistic, so I opened myself up to euthanasia (which I happen to agree with) and war. What about the guy who ambushed and killed the two young women police officers in Manchester? Do you think he deserves to live out the rest of his life in relative comfort? Personally I think he should be put down and be done with it. Either that or give him a wooden stick to clear landmines in Afghanistan.
I guess the death penalty one where we have to agree to disagree
Digga said:
TheHeretic said:
No. Our justice system cannot be trusted not to send innocent folks to their deaths. I've posted this before on similar threads. It is the number of death row exonerations in the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_de...
Surely there are cases though, were the evidence is absolute? I'm thinking of situations where there are multiple witnesses and incontrovertible supporting evidence.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_de...
For me, the fact that you can get it wrong means you should never execute.
Ozzie Osmond said:
What on earth are you talking about?
Al-Megrahi was a convicted terrorist released by Alex Salmond for political reasons. Blame that poisonous little worm, not the justice system.
I suggest you go and do some research before you start questioning others.Al-Megrahi was a convicted terrorist released by Alex Salmond for political reasons. Blame that poisonous little worm, not the justice system.
Whether Libya was to blame for the Lockerbie bombing is pretty much a complete, 100% certainty.
Whether Al Megrahi was the Libyan responsible is far, far more debatable.
Bedazzled said:
Bedazzled said:
What about the guy who ambushed and killed the two young women police officers in Manchester?
Any of the anti-brigade care to comment on this? Is it right for Cregan to spend the next 20 years getting three square meals a day, TV and playstation...? Is that a fitting punishment for someone who murders two female police officers in cold blood? PC Nicola Hughes was 23 years old, bless.If we had the death penalty then why would he not go on a nice little killing fest and then blow his brains out
Bedazzled said:
Bedazzled said:
What about the guy who ambushed and killed the two young women police officers in Manchester?
Any of the anti-brigade care to comment on this? Is it right for Cregan to spend the next 20 years getting three square meals a day, TV and playstation...? Is that a fitting punishment for someone who murders two female police officers in cold blood? PC Nicola Hughes was 23 years old, bless.
k all at all. HTH
Bedazzled said:
Bedazzled said:
What about the guy who ambushed and killed the two young women police officers in Manchester?
Any of the anti-brigade care to comment on this?Prison should be tougher. Life should mean life.
Giving someone a lethal injection after spending 5 years on death row is the easy way out.
Then there's the wrongful conviction issues to consider.
Can't see any good re death penalty, apart from some momentary sense of vengeance for bereaved relatives, friends & those ill-educated council house types who throw bricks through pediatrician's windows.
It also clearly doesn't discourage crime, judging from those countries that use it.
I think the use of guns would also increase, if there was the threat of the death penalty.
Edited by zygalski on Saturday 6th October 12:03
Bedazzled said:
Any of the anti-brigade care to comment on this? Is it right for Cregan to spend the next 20 years getting three square meals a day, TV and playstation...? Is that a fitting punishment for someone who murders two female police officers in cold blood? PC Nicola Hughes was 23 years old, bless.
I love how retarded this argument isI don't want the death penalty therefore i want all murders to spend 3 weeks in a 5 star hotel
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