another abuse gang

[Digga]

del mar said:

Surely if a study shows that 4% of the population carry out 84% of one specific type of crime wider society can now discuss it ?

Given who the report was commissioned by, one would hope so. The problem is there, plain to see; the numbers back up the narrative.

We just don;t want to turf the baby out with the bathwater and avoid the possibility that future abuse may come from elsewhere, but for now, there is definitely something to focus on a very specific group for present and previous cases.

[rscott]

FiF said:

Well there's a surprise. The Quilliam foundation in the words of one of the report authors, set out to "debunk the media narrative that Asians are over-represented in this specific crime. But, when the final numbers came in we were alarmed and dismayed. For both of us being of Pakistani heritage, this issue is deeply personal and deeply disturbing.”

'They examined 264 convictions and found that 84% of those convicted were South Asian origin and Muslim. The failure of Asian communities to integrate into British society has led to gangs of Muslim men targeting white women with drink and drugs before raping and sexually abusing them, with only 3 of the victims not being white teenage girls'

Ms Adil, the author also commented "There are elements from within the British Pakistani community that still subscribe to outdated and sexist views of women embedded within their jaded interpretations of Islam. These backward views are passed down from generation to generation until the lines between faith and culture dissolve, making it increasingly difficult to criticise one without being seen as a critic of the other.”


This is not saying anything not said multiple times in this and other threads, but will this be the push to make change within the relevant communities.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/09/groomin...

Edited by FiF on Sunday 10th December 06:06

Can I ask why your quote doesn't match the article you linked to? The two words in bold aren't present in that.
If their data source was the official police data, does that actually record religion or only the self-defined ethnicity of the individual?

If they do have data as to the declared religion of the individuals, be useful to know how many of the other 16% of those convicted were also Muslims.

[andymadmak]

rscott said:

Can I ask why your quote doesn't match the article you linked to? The two words in bold aren't present in that.
.

The Muslim reference appears higher up the article:

Telegraph article said:

The failure of certain parts of the Asian community to integrate into British society has led to gangs of British Pakistani Muslim men​ targeting white women with drink and drugs before raping and sexually abusing them, an anti-extremism think tank claims.

[rscott]

andymadmak said:

rscott said:

Can I ask why your quote doesn't match the article you linked to? The two words in bold aren't present in that.
.

The Muslim reference appears higher up the article:

Telegraph article said:

The failure of certain parts of the Asian community to integrate into British society has led to gangs of British Pakistani Muslim men? targeting white women with drink and drugs before raping and sexually abusing them, an anti-extremism think tank claims.

That's not a quote from the Quilliam report though, is it.
Does the report actually have data to back that claim, or is there an assumption that because they're British Pakistanis they're also Muslims?


Is their abhorrent attitude to women due to their Pakistani background, their interpretation of their religion, or a combination of the two?

[andymadmak]

rscott said:

That's not a quote from the Quilliam report though, is it.
Does the report actually have data to back that claim, or is there an assumption that because they're British Pakistanis they're also Muslims?


Is their abhorrent attitude to women due to their Pakistani background, their interpretation of their religion, or a combination of the two?

Ahh, OK, I take your point. Sorry I thought you referred to the article. My mistake. I haven't read the report so i don't know the answer. Sorry.

[FiF]

rscott said:

andymadmak said:

rscott said:

Can I ask why your quote doesn't match the article you linked to? The two words in bold aren't present in that.
.

The Muslim reference appears higher up the article:

Telegraph article said:

The failure of certain parts of the Asian community to integrate into British society has led to gangs of British Pakistani Muslim men? targeting white women with drink and drugs before raping and sexually abusing them, an anti-extremism think tank claims.

That's not a quote from the Quilliam report though, is it.
Does the report actually have data to back that claim, or is there an assumption that because they're British Pakistanis they're also Muslims?


Is their abhorrent attitude to women due to their Pakistani background, their interpretation of their religion, or a combination of the two?

I think you are trying too hard to throw up a smokescreen. The report is only available to specific readers on early release.

Considering however one of the report authors has reportedly gone to clearly link the two, faith and culture in an earlier quote, this one.

“There are elements from within the British Pakistani community that still subscribe to outdated and sexist views of women embedded within their jaded interpretations of Islam. These backward views are passed down from generation to generation until the lines between faith and culture dissolve, making it increasingly difficult to criticise one without being seen as a critic of the other.”

Considering the title of the piece, again questioning whether all 84% of the convicted were Muslim is imo a blatant piece of fog plaiting. It could be that there were more or less than 84% declared to be Muslim.

[rscott]

FiF said:

rscott said:

andymadmak said:

rscott said:

Can I ask why your quote doesn't match the article you linked to? The two words in bold aren't present in that.
.

The Muslim reference appears higher up the article:

Telegraph article said:

The failure of certain parts of the Asian community to integrate into British society has led to gangs of British Pakistani Muslim men? targeting white women with drink and drugs before raping and sexually abusing them, an anti-extremism think tank claims.

That's not a quote from the Quilliam report though, is it.
Does the report actually have data to back that claim, or is there an assumption that because they're British Pakistanis they're also Muslims?


Is their abhorrent attitude to women due to their Pakistani background, their interpretation of their religion, or a combination of the two?

I think you are trying too hard to throw up a smokescreen. The report is only available to specific readers on early release.

Considering however one of the report authors has reportedly gone to clearly link the two, faith and culture in an earlier quote, this one.

“There are elements from within the British Pakistani community that still subscribe to outdated and sexist views of women embedded within their jaded interpretations of Islam. These backward views are passed down from generation to generation until the lines between faith and culture dissolve, making it increasingly difficult to criticise one without being seen as a critic of the other.”

Considering the title of the piece, again questioning whether all 84% of the convicted were Muslim is imo a blatant piece of fog plaiting. It could be that there were more or less than 84% declared to be Muslim.

No smokescreen, just challenging your deliberate misquoting.

I'd say actually knowing (not just assuming) the declared religion of all those convicted is as useful as knowing the ethnic background if trying to show the influences that may have on their behaviour.

[del mar]

Breadvan72 said:

It is being discussed. Racists like you like to pretend that this subject can't be discussed, so that you can get all outraged, but tough luck.

Come on.... that is going backwards, there is a big difference between a handful of faceless nobodies on the internet arguing over something and it being openly discussed at the highest level.

Sarah Champion didn't get on too well when she tried to discuss it.
The Independent Enquiry in Child Sex abuse doesn't mention it

[del mar]

rscott said:

Is their abhorrent attitude to women due to their Pakistani background, their interpretation of their religion, or a combination of the two?

We have no idea, hopefully we can now discuss / investigate it.

[rscott]

del mar said:

rscott said:

Is their abhorrent attitude to women due to their Pakistani background, their interpretation of their religion, or a combination of the two?

We have no idea, hopefully we can now discuss / investigate it.

We're on page 164 of this thread, I think we've been able to discuss it already.

[del mar]

rscott said:

We're on page 164 of this thread, I think we've been able to discuss it already.

By "we" I mean wider society outside of us nobodies.

Say like a Prominent Labour MP ?

[MikeT66]

A fairly damning conclusion from Operation Sanctuary...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-43153556

...and yet, to counteract this, there is the go-ahead for less intregration for 'faith schools' which will do nothing to help resolve the attitudes that are clearly prevalent in some communities...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/educ...

We are in the 21st century, aren't we..?

[mx5nut]

rscott said:

del mar said:

rscott said:

Is their abhorrent attitude to women due to their Pakistani background, their interpretation of their religion, or a combination of the two?

We have no idea, hopefully we can now discuss / investigate it.

We're on page 164 of this thread, I think we've been able to discuss it already.

Remember there is 163 pages of people pretending that they're "not allowed" to discuss it in there.

[bmwmike]

MikeT66 said:

A fairly damning conclusion from Operation Sanctuary...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-43153556

...and yet, to counteract this, there is the go-ahead for less intregration for 'faith schools' which will do nothing to help resolve the attitudes that are clearly prevalent in some communities...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/educ...

We are in the 21st century, aren't we..?

Bold bit - some of us are, but not everyone wants to be. It's all very depressing and yet seemingly predictable.

[Troubleatmill]

bmwmike said:

Bold bit - some of us are, but not everyone wants to be. It's all very depressing and yet seemingly predictable.

My money is on the next gang being a group of Ginger haired Scotman, drinking Irn Bru, hanging outside a chip shop specialising in deep fried Mars Bars enticing young vunerable girls.

Or do I play it safe and go for you know who?

[Alpinestars]

Troubleatmill said:

bmwmike said:

Bold bit - some of us are, but not everyone wants to be. It's all very depressing and yet seemingly predictable.

My money is on the next gang being a group of Ginger haired Scotman, drinking Irn Bru, hanging outside a chip shop specialising in deep fried Mars Bars enticing young vunerable girls.

Or do I play it safe and go for you know who?

Yes, we'll ignore all the sexual abuse that's being going on which wasn't committed by "those" types shall we. I don't see many of you guys condeming that - really can't think why.

[bmwmike]

Alpinestars said:

Yes, we'll ignore all the sexual abuse that's being going on which wasn't committed by "those" types shall we. I don't see many of you guys condeming that - really can't think why.

Nobody is ignoring anything, as far as I can see. Are you talking about the Catholic abuses? TV presenters? Politicians? Charities?

[Alpinestars]

bmwmike said:

Alpinestars said:

Yes, we'll ignore all the sexual abuse that's being going on which wasn't committed by "those" types shall we. I don't see many of you guys condeming that - really can't think why.

Nobody is ignoring anything, as far as I can see. Are you talking about the Catholic abuses? TV presenters? Politicians? Charities?

Take your pick of an ever expanding list - there appears to be a broad problem of sexual abuse against kids and women by men. There are those on here who only see some evil, and that depends on who the perpetrators are, not what the crime is.

[bmwmike]

Alpinestars said:

bmwmike said:

Alpinestars said:

Yes, we'll ignore all the sexual abuse that's being going on which wasn't committed by "those" types shall we. I don't see many of you guys condeming that - really can't think why.

Nobody is ignoring anything, as far as I can see. Are you talking about the Catholic abuses? TV presenters? Politicians? Charities?

Take your pick of an ever expanding list - there appears to be a broad problem of sexual abuse against kids and women by men. There are those on here who only see some evil, and that depends on who the perpetrators are, not what the crime is.

Agree. Just take a look at the Iceland thread about circumcision. It's 2018 ffs and we're still discussing the need for mutual respect between genders and whether sky fairies have absolute rights over a child. Education, job culture, social culture, and religion all play a role in that to varying degrees both in terms of cause and mitigation.

[StephenGalley]

More of this in the news today. Listen, it is time someone said it, we don't want over 20% of our European country a foreign race, and STILL letting more in. A few and fair enough but not over 20% and still letting more in. Do you think China, Korea, Thailand, Pakistan, Japan, etc., etc. etc. are doing this in their own countries?