another abuse gang
Discussion
Troubleatmill said:
‘South Asian’ vs ‘Pakistani’ vs ‘Muslim’ Grooming Gangs: Why specific identification is key
By Muna Adil
New research by Quilliam, authored by Haras Rafiq and myself, on the link between grooming gangs and offender ethnicity has found that 84% of child sexual exploitation offenders who operate in gangs or groups are ‘Asian’. This is in sharp contrast to only 7% Asians in the total UK population.
A critical hurdle in any research conducted into offender ethnicity will find a major roadblock in the form of a severe lack of information available from official records. Offender profiles lack detailed entries and there is little to no specific information on ethnicity.
It may seem inconsequential and irrelevant for crime agencies to note down specifics on race, ethnicity, or nationality, but the emerging pattern of race representation and its clear significance in the specific crime of grooming gangs calls for a renewed approach.
In order to hone in to identify the specific demographic involved in these crimes and, consequently, be able to more accurately identify and analyse the reasons behind the demographic’s prominence, police and crime agencies must be more diligent in recording offender details.
Preliminary data has already shown that racial and cultural contexts influence offenders who operate in grooming gangs. Qualitative data has shown that case after case of this crime is perpetrated by men of Pakistani origin.
In order to understand the psyche of these offenders, it is necessary to consider the cultural roots of their dysfunctional view of women, relationships, and sex.
An observable feature of these grooming gangs that can be traced back to cultural norms concerns the age of the victims. While the disparity between the ages of the abusers and the victims is extreme in the UK context, Pakistani law is still struggling with the court of public opinion when it comes to banning child marriage.
Only last year, a move to ban child marriages in Pakistan was withdrawn after it was met with robust resistance from religious outfits, in particular, the CII, who dubbed the bill as “anti-Islamic” and “blasphemous”, forcing the female politician who introduced the bill to back down. The proposed legislation recommended raising the minimum age of marriage for women to 18-years-old (currently 16) and advised harsher sentencing to those engaging in marriage with a minor.
The CII unanimously rejected the proposal on “purely religious grounds”. Chairman Mohammad Khan Sheerani said: “Parliament cannot create legislation that is against the teachings of the Holy Quran or Sunnah.” In May 2014, the council emphasised its ruling that girls as young as nine-years-old were eligible for marriage if “the signs of puberty are visible.”
This acceptance of child marriage stems from the selective reading of hadith literature in which is it is assumed that the Prophet Muhammad’s widow Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to the Prophet, and nine-years-old when the marriage was consummated. This belief is founded on a saying attributed to Aisha herself. Other Muslims cast doubt on the veracity of the hadith as it is in conflict with several other historical accounts suggesting that this report is inaccurate. But for those who wish to pursue their twisted perversions, this unconfirmed account is enough to justify their behaviour. Sadly, this understanding of the hadith has been preached so consistently that it is now prevalent among Sunni Muslims, and widely accepted as accurate.
Yet these fundamentalist approaches aren’t just being taught in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, but right here on British soil. In January 2013, Nottingham Crown Court saw the disturbing case of Adil Rashid who was spared jail after he raped a 13-year-old girl because he claimed that his Islamic education had left him “ignorant of British law”. Rashid admitted he had sex with the girl, saying he had been “tempted by her” after they met online. The 18-year-old attended a taxpayer-funded madrassah in Birmingham, where boys and girls were taught in segregated classes. Rashid said he was taught that “women are no more worthy than a lollipop that has been dropped on the ground”. This is an argument that is often touted in favour of the veil, where preachers will ask whether you would prefer a wrapped lollipop or an unwrapped one, the suggestion being that an uncovered woman has already been soiled and is unworthy of respect.
When it comes to the general treatment of women, it is undeniable that women’s rights have, both formally and informally, been repeatedly violated in Pakistan.According to leading women’s rights organization in Pakistan, Aurat Foundation, out of a total of 8,000 cases of violence against women in 2010, 928 were rape cases. The actual figure is projected to be much higher, as a large majority of cases go unreported due to socio-cultural norms regarding honour and family prestige. Out of the cases that do make it to court, only 3% land a conviction.
More recently, in 2016, a bill titled the ‘Women’s Protection Act’ made a meagre attempt to help women who may be stuck in abusive relationships by proposing to provide them with legal protection from domestic, psychological, and sexual violence, setting up an emergency helpline, and pledging to establish more women’s shelters. Although this seemingly uncontroversial bill had promised nothing but the bare minimum for these abuse victims, it still managed to attract a great deal of negative attention and criticism from official bodies and the general public alike.
The CII claimed the bill was “un-Islamic,” while FazlurRehman, the chief of one of Pakistan’s largest religious political parties, the Jamiat-i-Ulema Islam, claimed that this law “makes a man insecure” and that it “is an attempt to make Pakistan a Western colony again.”
These are prime examples of how both the formal and informal systems of justice in Pakistan create an oppressive, impenetrable structure in order to maintain social stability by silencing women and sustaining a misogynistic utopia which prefers to see women as commodities instead of human beings, whose sexuality and sexual behaviour is inextricably and necessarily linked to the honour of their family, community, and country.
A Home Affairs Select Committee report into localised grooming claimed that “The vast majority of convicted child-sex offenders in the UK are single White men.” The report went on to say in passing that there seems to be a “widespread perception” that the majority of perpetrators are of Asian heritage, yet it concludes that “there is no simple link between race and child sexual exploitation.”
Indeed there is no “simple link” between ethnicity and grooming gangs, but rather a deep, complicated relationship that British Pakistani men share with their adoptive homeland.
While the concern that specifics on race might act as fuel for the agendas of extreme political elements and bigots to abuse, we owe it to these young victims of sexual abuse to pursue every avenue that might hold the possibility of an explanation and resolution.
And while it is key that the data doesn’t get hijacked by bigots, our choice in conducting this research was between speaking some harsh truths or maintaining silence over the systematic rape of young girls – I know what I would choose one hundred times over.
By Muna Adil, Researcher, Quilliam International and co-author of our new report ‘Group Based Child Sexual Exploitation – Dissecting Grooming Gangs.’
Interesting that this has been skipped over by many...By Muna Adil
New research by Quilliam, authored by Haras Rafiq and myself, on the link between grooming gangs and offender ethnicity has found that 84% of child sexual exploitation offenders who operate in gangs or groups are ‘Asian’. This is in sharp contrast to only 7% Asians in the total UK population.
A critical hurdle in any research conducted into offender ethnicity will find a major roadblock in the form of a severe lack of information available from official records. Offender profiles lack detailed entries and there is little to no specific information on ethnicity.
It may seem inconsequential and irrelevant for crime agencies to note down specifics on race, ethnicity, or nationality, but the emerging pattern of race representation and its clear significance in the specific crime of grooming gangs calls for a renewed approach.
In order to hone in to identify the specific demographic involved in these crimes and, consequently, be able to more accurately identify and analyse the reasons behind the demographic’s prominence, police and crime agencies must be more diligent in recording offender details.
Preliminary data has already shown that racial and cultural contexts influence offenders who operate in grooming gangs. Qualitative data has shown that case after case of this crime is perpetrated by men of Pakistani origin.
In order to understand the psyche of these offenders, it is necessary to consider the cultural roots of their dysfunctional view of women, relationships, and sex.
An observable feature of these grooming gangs that can be traced back to cultural norms concerns the age of the victims. While the disparity between the ages of the abusers and the victims is extreme in the UK context, Pakistani law is still struggling with the court of public opinion when it comes to banning child marriage.
Only last year, a move to ban child marriages in Pakistan was withdrawn after it was met with robust resistance from religious outfits, in particular, the CII, who dubbed the bill as “anti-Islamic” and “blasphemous”, forcing the female politician who introduced the bill to back down. The proposed legislation recommended raising the minimum age of marriage for women to 18-years-old (currently 16) and advised harsher sentencing to those engaging in marriage with a minor.
The CII unanimously rejected the proposal on “purely religious grounds”. Chairman Mohammad Khan Sheerani said: “Parliament cannot create legislation that is against the teachings of the Holy Quran or Sunnah.” In May 2014, the council emphasised its ruling that girls as young as nine-years-old were eligible for marriage if “the signs of puberty are visible.”
This acceptance of child marriage stems from the selective reading of hadith literature in which is it is assumed that the Prophet Muhammad’s widow Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to the Prophet, and nine-years-old when the marriage was consummated. This belief is founded on a saying attributed to Aisha herself. Other Muslims cast doubt on the veracity of the hadith as it is in conflict with several other historical accounts suggesting that this report is inaccurate. But for those who wish to pursue their twisted perversions, this unconfirmed account is enough to justify their behaviour. Sadly, this understanding of the hadith has been preached so consistently that it is now prevalent among Sunni Muslims, and widely accepted as accurate.
Yet these fundamentalist approaches aren’t just being taught in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, but right here on British soil. In January 2013, Nottingham Crown Court saw the disturbing case of Adil Rashid who was spared jail after he raped a 13-year-old girl because he claimed that his Islamic education had left him “ignorant of British law”. Rashid admitted he had sex with the girl, saying he had been “tempted by her” after they met online. The 18-year-old attended a taxpayer-funded madrassah in Birmingham, where boys and girls were taught in segregated classes. Rashid said he was taught that “women are no more worthy than a lollipop that has been dropped on the ground”. This is an argument that is often touted in favour of the veil, where preachers will ask whether you would prefer a wrapped lollipop or an unwrapped one, the suggestion being that an uncovered woman has already been soiled and is unworthy of respect.
When it comes to the general treatment of women, it is undeniable that women’s rights have, both formally and informally, been repeatedly violated in Pakistan.According to leading women’s rights organization in Pakistan, Aurat Foundation, out of a total of 8,000 cases of violence against women in 2010, 928 were rape cases. The actual figure is projected to be much higher, as a large majority of cases go unreported due to socio-cultural norms regarding honour and family prestige. Out of the cases that do make it to court, only 3% land a conviction.
More recently, in 2016, a bill titled the ‘Women’s Protection Act’ made a meagre attempt to help women who may be stuck in abusive relationships by proposing to provide them with legal protection from domestic, psychological, and sexual violence, setting up an emergency helpline, and pledging to establish more women’s shelters. Although this seemingly uncontroversial bill had promised nothing but the bare minimum for these abuse victims, it still managed to attract a great deal of negative attention and criticism from official bodies and the general public alike.
The CII claimed the bill was “un-Islamic,” while FazlurRehman, the chief of one of Pakistan’s largest religious political parties, the Jamiat-i-Ulema Islam, claimed that this law “makes a man insecure” and that it “is an attempt to make Pakistan a Western colony again.”
These are prime examples of how both the formal and informal systems of justice in Pakistan create an oppressive, impenetrable structure in order to maintain social stability by silencing women and sustaining a misogynistic utopia which prefers to see women as commodities instead of human beings, whose sexuality and sexual behaviour is inextricably and necessarily linked to the honour of their family, community, and country.
A Home Affairs Select Committee report into localised grooming claimed that “The vast majority of convicted child-sex offenders in the UK are single White men.” The report went on to say in passing that there seems to be a “widespread perception” that the majority of perpetrators are of Asian heritage, yet it concludes that “there is no simple link between race and child sexual exploitation.”
Indeed there is no “simple link” between ethnicity and grooming gangs, but rather a deep, complicated relationship that British Pakistani men share with their adoptive homeland.
While the concern that specifics on race might act as fuel for the agendas of extreme political elements and bigots to abuse, we owe it to these young victims of sexual abuse to pursue every avenue that might hold the possibility of an explanation and resolution.
And while it is key that the data doesn’t get hijacked by bigots, our choice in conducting this research was between speaking some harsh truths or maintaining silence over the systematic rape of young girls – I know what I would choose one hundred times over.
By Muna Adil, Researcher, Quilliam International and co-author of our new report ‘Group Based Child Sexual Exploitation – Dissecting Grooming Gangs.’
Edited by Troubleatmill on Tuesday 27th February 18:23
One of the issues is that the liberal establishment failed to identify, the poor, white, non-working (or barely working) class amongst their groups of disadvantaged and vulnerable ethnicities. Yet we all sort of know they are.
A brief look at the "A bit Council" thread in the PH Lounge shows most of us recognise it - see the humour in it even - but also fail to see that to be born into this is to be born outside of normal opportunities. It makes preying on some of these people, no only the teenage girls, very easy for all sorts of criminals, not only sexual predators.
A brief look at the "A bit Council" thread in the PH Lounge shows most of us recognise it - see the humour in it even - but also fail to see that to be born into this is to be born outside of normal opportunities. It makes preying on some of these people, no only the teenage girls, very easy for all sorts of criminals, not only sexual predators.
Digga said:
One of the issues is that the liberal establishment failed to identify, the poor, white, non-working (or barely working) class amongst their groups of disadvantaged and vulnerable ethnicities. Yet we all sort of know they are.
A brief look at the "A bit Council" thread in the PH Lounge shows most of us recognise it - see the humour in it even - but also fail to see that to be born into this is to be born outside of normal opportunities. It makes preying on some of these people, no only the teenage girls, very easy for all sorts of criminals, not only sexual predators.
Yes. And the boys are amongst the most disadvantaged in terms of education. No one to really look after them, no prospects etc, make them an easy target for predators. A brief look at the "A bit Council" thread in the PH Lounge shows most of us recognise it - see the humour in it even - but also fail to see that to be born into this is to be born outside of normal opportunities. It makes preying on some of these people, no only the teenage girls, very easy for all sorts of criminals, not only sexual predators.
Alpinestars said:
The premise of your agrument appears to be that "they do it over there", which is pretty easily debunked with some facts about incidences of sexual abuse.
The level of your denial is incredible. Pakistan has horrific rates of child sexual abuse, what exactly is your agenda here? Is it simply liberal hand wringing, not wanting to paint a bad light on any non-Caucasian races, or is there something even uglier at the root of this?Edited by Mr2Mike on Wednesday 28th February 10:56
Mr2Mike said:
Alpinestars said:
The premise of your agrument appears to be that "they do it over there", which is pretty easily debunked with some facts about incidences of sexual abuse.
The level of your denial is incredible. Pakistan has horrific rates of child sexual abuse, what exactly is your agenda here? I think most posters on this thread get your point, Alpinestars – abuse can be seen as an issue that is perpetrated by people in many aspects of society.
However, right or wrong, this particular thread is concerned with child abuse from one particular group of society. The recent reports clearly state that this can be an issue in some Pakistani communities. The reason that this is of specific interest is generally either 1) oooh, all Muslims are bad (patently ridiculous, of course) or 2) there are genuine fears that this cannot and will not be targeted by the powers that be (read the above post from Troubleatmill quoting Muna Adil) due to implied racism. It is a specific issue that those outside of that community will not understand nor know how to tackle it or even raise the question as the ‘racist’ label can get flung around very easily.
If large groups of grooming gangs were operating in an part of society that I had an insight into, I may have some suggestions as to tackling it. You are obviously an intelligent person (judging from your posts), sound very knowledgeable of the Muslim part of society and clearly have no time for these scum – I think some people on here would like some of your insight as to how to challenge any misconceptions and poor attitudes, rather than just pointing a finger at other perpetrators. We’re all on the same side here.
However, right or wrong, this particular thread is concerned with child abuse from one particular group of society. The recent reports clearly state that this can be an issue in some Pakistani communities. The reason that this is of specific interest is generally either 1) oooh, all Muslims are bad (patently ridiculous, of course) or 2) there are genuine fears that this cannot and will not be targeted by the powers that be (read the above post from Troubleatmill quoting Muna Adil) due to implied racism. It is a specific issue that those outside of that community will not understand nor know how to tackle it or even raise the question as the ‘racist’ label can get flung around very easily.
If large groups of grooming gangs were operating in an part of society that I had an insight into, I may have some suggestions as to tackling it. You are obviously an intelligent person (judging from your posts), sound very knowledgeable of the Muslim part of society and clearly have no time for these scum – I think some people on here would like some of your insight as to how to challenge any misconceptions and poor attitudes, rather than just pointing a finger at other perpetrators. We’re all on the same side here.
Alpinestars said:
Interesting in what way?
As a btw, I know Haras pretty well.
Is your mate suggesting that the Pakistani muslim British abusers COULD be drawing a degree of justification for the acts from their upbringing / culture / religion ?As a btw, I know Haras pretty well.
Even the wives of the Rotherham abusers said this would never happen to their daughters as they are covered up.
MikeT66 said:
I think most posters on this thread get your point, Alpinestars – abuse can be seen as an issue that is perpetrated by people in many aspects of society.
However, right or wrong, this particular thread is concerned with child abuse from one particular group of society. The recent reports clearly state that this can be an issue in some Pakistani communities. The reason that this is of specific interest is generally either 1) oooh, all Muslims are bad (patently ridiculous, of course) or 2) there are genuine fears that this cannot and will not be targeted by the powers that be (read the above post from Troubleatmill quoting Muna Adil) due to implied racism. It is a specific issue that those outside of that community will not understand nor know how to tackle it or even raise the question as the ‘racist’ label can get flung around very easily.
If large groups of grooming gangs were operating in an part of society that I had an insight into, I may have some suggestions as to tackling it. You are obviously an intelligent person (judging from your posts), sound very knowledgeable of the Muslim part of society and clearly have no time for these scum – I think some people on here would like some of your insight as to how to challenge any misconceptions and poor attitudes, rather than just pointing a finger at other perpetrators. We’re all on the same side here.
Good post.However, right or wrong, this particular thread is concerned with child abuse from one particular group of society. The recent reports clearly state that this can be an issue in some Pakistani communities. The reason that this is of specific interest is generally either 1) oooh, all Muslims are bad (patently ridiculous, of course) or 2) there are genuine fears that this cannot and will not be targeted by the powers that be (read the above post from Troubleatmill quoting Muna Adil) due to implied racism. It is a specific issue that those outside of that community will not understand nor know how to tackle it or even raise the question as the ‘racist’ label can get flung around very easily.
If large groups of grooming gangs were operating in an part of society that I had an insight into, I may have some suggestions as to tackling it. You are obviously an intelligent person (judging from your posts), sound very knowledgeable of the Muslim part of society and clearly have no time for these scum – I think some people on here would like some of your insight as to how to challenge any misconceptions and poor attitudes, rather than just pointing a finger at other perpetrators. We’re all on the same side here.
del mar said:
Alpinestars said:
Interesting in what way?
As a btw, I know Haras pretty well.
Is your mate suggesting that the Pakistani muslim British abusers COULD be drawing a degree of justification for the acts from their upbringing / culture / religion ?As a btw, I know Haras pretty well.
Even the wives of the Rotherham abusers said this would never happen to their daughters as they are covered up.
monthefish said:
MikeT66 said:
I think most posters on this thread get your point, Alpinestars – abuse can be seen as an issue that is perpetrated by people in many aspects of society.
However, right or wrong, this particular thread is concerned with child abuse from one particular group of society. The recent reports clearly state that this can be an issue in some Pakistani communities. The reason that this is of specific interest is generally either 1) oooh, all Muslims are bad (patently ridiculous, of course) or 2) there are genuine fears that this cannot and will not be targeted by the powers that be (read the above post from Troubleatmill quoting Muna Adil) due to implied racism. It is a specific issue that those outside of that community will not understand nor know how to tackle it or even raise the question as the ‘racist’ label can get flung around very easily.
If large groups of grooming gangs were operating in an part of society that I had an insight into, I may have some suggestions as to tackling it. You are obviously an intelligent person (judging from your posts), sound very knowledgeable of the Muslim part of society and clearly have no time for these scum – I think some people on here would like some of your insight as to how to challenge any misconceptions and poor attitudes, rather than just pointing a finger at other perpetrators. We’re all on the same side here.
Good post.However, right or wrong, this particular thread is concerned with child abuse from one particular group of society. The recent reports clearly state that this can be an issue in some Pakistani communities. The reason that this is of specific interest is generally either 1) oooh, all Muslims are bad (patently ridiculous, of course) or 2) there are genuine fears that this cannot and will not be targeted by the powers that be (read the above post from Troubleatmill quoting Muna Adil) due to implied racism. It is a specific issue that those outside of that community will not understand nor know how to tackle it or even raise the question as the ‘racist’ label can get flung around very easily.
If large groups of grooming gangs were operating in an part of society that I had an insight into, I may have some suggestions as to tackling it. You are obviously an intelligent person (judging from your posts), sound very knowledgeable of the Muslim part of society and clearly have no time for these scum – I think some people on here would like some of your insight as to how to challenge any misconceptions and poor attitudes, rather than just pointing a finger at other perpetrators. We’re all on the same side here.
I appreciate the thread is about abuse gangs, but that doesn't preclude discussion. The reason I bother posting on here is not because I can provide solutions for the abuse, I don't have any insights that you or anyone else has, but to point out that it's not only an immigrant, Pakistani, Muslim problem that some people seem to think it is. It runs through all society. There are too many disingenuous posters who are ostensibly worried about the abuse, but only ever appear on Asian, immigrant, Muslim threads. If they were honest about the problem of sexual abuse, I wouldn't have a lot to say on this thread, and we'd all be in agreement about the scum who perpetrate these crimes. Desolate summed my position up well. Sorry I can't be of more help, but I think it's important that people understand the facts of sexual abuse.
I never expected you to have a 100% fool-proof solution, Alpinestars – as no-one does. When I worked with sex offenders and their victims (some 20+ years ago now, though) we had in the city some systemic abuse being perpetrated by whole families. Children were being raised in houses (I can’t quite bring myself to call them ‘homes’) where they were targeted by their own families, relatives and others in the ‘circle’. This was approached with a multi-disciplinary team from Social Care, the Police, Counsellors and CPAs. It was pretty much a head-on attack on the abusive families and largely succeeded in breaking the chain of abuse that went on, as at that point the young abused children were beginning their own abuse of younger victims as it was ‘the norm’ and encouraged by their parents.
I'm just not sure if this approach would work in these instance, though. I wonder if change needs to come from within – it seems, only IMHO of course, that the views of ‘outsiders’ are not being taken on board or listened to. We should never be afraid of voicing concerns, though, when it comes to protecting the truly vulnerable.
I'm just not sure if this approach would work in these instance, though. I wonder if change needs to come from within – it seems, only IMHO of course, that the views of ‘outsiders’ are not being taken on board or listened to. We should never be afraid of voicing concerns, though, when it comes to protecting the truly vulnerable.
Edited by MikeT66 on Wednesday 28th February 14:24
MikeT66 said:
I never expected you to have a 100% fool-proof solution, Alpinestars – as no-one does. When I worked with sex offenders and their victims (some 20+ years ago now, though) we had in the city some systemic abuse being perpetrated by whole families. Children were being raised in houses (I can’t quite bring myself to call them ‘homes’) where they were targeted by their own families, relatives and others in the ‘circle’. This was approached with a multi-disciplinary team from Social Care, the Police, Counsellors and CPAs. It was pretty much a head-on attack on the abusive families and largely succeeded in breaking the chain of abuse that went on, as at that point the young abused children were beginning their own abuse of younger victims as it was ‘the norm’ and encouraged by their parents.
With regard to the communities being in the spotlight here, I wonder if change needs to come from within, though – it seems, only IMHO of course, that the views of ‘outsiders’ are not being taken on board or listened to. We should never be afraid of voicing concerns, though, when it comes to protecting the truly vulnerable.
You're clearly way more of an expert that any of us. Most sexual abuse is carried out by relatives AFAIK. With regard to the communities being in the spotlight here, I wonder if change needs to come from within, though – it seems, only IMHO of course, that the views of ‘outsiders’ are not being taken on board or listened to. We should never be afraid of voicing concerns, though, when it comes to protecting the truly vulnerable.
The "community" probably has a role to play. A bit like we all know the bad guys who we come across, mix with, live close to etc. So I don't believe there are people in local communities who didn't know what was going on, and either turned a blind eye because it didn't affect them directly, or were maybe too scared to speak out. Making it explicitly socially unacceptable might help, or, from within and from outside the "community". I also think that whilst it goes against the grain for me, ostracising a particular community might kick them into action in a #notinmyname type way. But it might also bring the shutters down, which is the last thing we'd want. The authorities also have a large part to play, in not treating disadvantaged children like they don't exist or that they can't be believed.
Plastering perpetrators faces all over the press should also help. So anyone else associated with them and the abuse knows it won't be long before it's their turn. Going forward I'd like to think there will be less cases like the ones we have seen, because the MO has been spotted and is on authorities' and the publics radar. Here's wishing.
Alpinestars said:
Going forward I'd like to think there will be less cases like the ones we have seen, because the MO has been spotted and is on authorities' and the publics radar.
..and here's the sad part for me.It's not stopping because they think it's the wrong thing to do, it's stopping because they think they'll get caught.
Oil & Water - always will be under a veneer of compliance and relative modernity.
Mothersruin said:
Alpinestars said:
Going forward I'd like to think there will be less cases like the ones we have seen, because the MO has been spotted and is on authorities' and the publics radar.
..and here's the sad part for me.It's not stopping because they think it's the wrong thing to do, it's stopping because they think they'll get caught.
Oil & Water - always will be under a veneer of compliance and relative modernity.
Mothersruin said:
...It's not stopping because they think it's the wrong thing to do, it's stopping because they think they'll get caught.
I see your point – but in truth that fear of getting caught stops lots of behaviour. Hell, I’d love to take my Puma to Scotland for a proper hoon, but the last time I was up there I behaved myself as I know the police are notoriously strict in speeding issues.It’s actually very, very hard to control that part of the brain that drives sexuality. Think about something specific that you find attractive and sexy – and imagine that getting out-lawed tomorrow… and thereafter trying to control ‘those’ urges and desires. It’s why I’m really against censorship and curtailment of ‘adult’ websites and businesses – they can provide the only outlet for some people to release those desires.
Some of the questions I would be looking at in cases like these that have been highlighted is 1) is the abuse from a genuine paedophilic desire (any child will do), 2) is it culture/peer orientated (as long as ‘they’ are not ‘our’ children it’s OK) or 3) lack of education and real integration that leads to barriers in understanding.
Fear of getting caught is important – but can be only the first step in properly tackling the issues.
MikeT66 said:
It’s actually very, very hard to control that part of the brain that drives sexuality. Think about something specific that you find attractive and sexy – and imagine that getting out-lawed tomorrow… and thereafter trying to control ‘those’ urges and desires. It’s why I’m really against censorship and curtailment of ‘adult’ websites and businesses – they can provide the only outlet for some people to release those desires.
Isn't one of the issues that it's only recently that teenagers have stopped being seen as fair game.They aren't seen as kids but as young adults.
I know for a fact Bennell said one of his 14 yr old accusers wasn't a child as he was "bigger than him". The girls abused by these gangs came from either care or difficult backgrounds - they were difficult to control so it was easier for the authorities to see it as a consensual voluntary act. Add in the race card and the our traditional reluctance to address this sort of thing as rape and you have a s
tstorm. I would imagine there was an organised crime element as well.Alpinestars said:
Mothersruin said:
Alpinestars said:
Going forward I'd like to think there will be less cases like the ones we have seen, because the MO has been spotted and is on authorities' and the publics radar.
..and here's the sad part for me.It's not stopping because they think it's the wrong thing to do, it's stopping because they think they'll get caught.
Oil & Water - always will be under a veneer of compliance and relative modernity.
The irony of the Asian gang abuse cases being previously 'under the radar' but now firmly within the sights of the authorities is not only that offenders within that demographic may change their MO to attempt to avoid detection, but also that it can divert attention from other types of abuse, even if only temporarily.
The big question is how to enable victims to report abuse and encourage them to do so with confidence they will be helped, and also how to identify those who are likely to exert control over the vulnerable.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff