another abuse gang

[jshell]

Ratski83 said:

The Netherlands has the exact same problems as we do they are just known as ‘Loverboys’ over there and it’s mainly Moroccan men targeting young girls but using the exact same methods of grooming and drugs before pimping them out.

Horrendous, huh?

[anonymous-user]

jshell said:

Alpinestars said:

jshell said:

I didn't mention Muslims, I tend not to... However, there are areas of the world that are particularly dangerous for women due to lack of education/wrong type of education/religiously taught intolerance etc.

For sure. So more generally, it’s a male problem. Power, entitlement, gratification, opportunity etc.

I'm not really seeing it in South America, not in Africa when I lived there. Poor parts of Russia perhaps, no? Point us to it then...

For clarity are you saying that in your view organised paedophilic behaviour is less prevalent in those areas ?

[jshell]

Brooking10 said:

jshell said:

Alpinestars said:

jshell said:

I didn't mention Muslims, I tend not to... However, there are areas of the world that are particularly dangerous for women due to lack of education/wrong type of education/religiously taught intolerance etc.

For sure. So more generally, it’s a male problem. Power, entitlement, gratification, opportunity etc.

I'm not really seeing it in South America, not in Africa when I lived there. Poor parts of Russia perhaps, no? Point us to it then...

For clarity are you saying that in your view organised paedophilic behaviour is less prevalent in those areas ?

I never mentioned paedophilic behaviour! Anywhere.

[anonymous-user]

jshell said:

Brooking10 said:

jshell said:

Alpinestars said:

jshell said:

I didn't mention Muslims, I tend not to... However, there are areas of the world that are particularly dangerous for women due to lack of education/wrong type of education/religiously taught intolerance etc.

For sure. So more generally, it’s a male problem. Power, entitlement, gratification, opportunity etc.

I'm not really seeing it in South America, not in Africa when I lived there. Poor parts of Russia perhaps, no? Point us to it then...

For clarity are you saying that in your view organised paedophilic behaviour is less prevalent in those areas ?

I never mentioned paedophilic behaviour! Anywhere.

Hi k let’s try again

Are you saying that in those areas women are less likely to find themselves assaulted /threatened/subjugated ?

Thing is I think we both know what you are getting it so probably easiest if you just come out and say it.

It makes debate much easier.

[Alpinestars]

jshell said:

I'm not really seeing it in South America, not in Africa when I lived there. Poor parts of Russia perhaps, no? Point us to it then...

Perhaps you could open your eyes a bit.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.hurriyetdailynews...

[Alpinestars]

j_4m said:

To borrow a term, it's intersectional. You need just the right amount of lack of education, low intelligence, stty cultural norms and religious enablement. Just being a muslim isn't enough. Rape as a summary punishment or even just as a bonding activity with the lads isn't happening among Pakistan's educated university set, but it is happening in other parts of society and creating attitudes that we are in turn importing.

I don’t think it has anything to do with religion.

[andymc]

Alpinestars said:

j_4m said:

To borrow a term, it's intersectional. You need just the right amount of lack of education, low intelligence, stty cultural norms and religious enablement. Just being a muslim isn't enough. Rape as a summary punishment or even just as a bonding activity with the lads isn't happening among Pakistan's educated university set, but it is happening in other parts of society and creating attitudes that we are in turn importing.

I don’t think it has anything to do with religion.

it's nothing to do with religion, AS is correct, a lot of it is cultural, women are very much second class citizens in Pakistan, especially the more rural/backward areas. A woman on her own is seen as loose/begging for it

[Alpinestars]

andymc said:

it's nothing to do with religion, AS is correct, a lot of it is cultural, women are very much second class citizens in Pakistan, especially the more rural/backward areas. A woman on her own is seen as loose/begging for it

This, together with people in the U.K. (those in the community that knew, social workers, police etc) turning a blind eye to the abuse. Hopefully not the case (or certainly not as widely the case) now.

[Transmitter Man]

Alpinestars said:

I don’t think it has anything to do with religion.

So you think the minority Christians act this way as well and that maybe it's not reported?

I'm not sure you're serious about it not being a religion based issue.

For example, they consider the prophet Mo ( who married Aisha at six and impregnated her after she started menstruating at 9) to be infallible, nigh on the all-perfect prophet and that they want to be good Muslims. What's good enough for Mo, is good enough for them.

But there again, I could be totally wrong and it's got nothing to do with the religion that's a couple of bricks short of a full load.

[Alpinestars]

Transmitter Man said:

So you think the minority Christians act this way as well and that maybe it's not reported?

I'm not sure you're serious about it not being a religion based issue.

For example, they consider the prophet Mo ( who married Aisha at six and impregnated her after she started menstruating at 9) to be infallible, nigh on the all-perfect prophet and that they want to be good Muslims. What's good enough for Mo, is good enough for them.

But there again, I could be totally wrong and it's got nothing to do with the religion that's a couple of bricks short of a full load.

Married at 6 and consummated at 9. Apparently

Which group is responsible for most sexual abuse against young children?

Try doing some reading.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ibtimes.co.uk/c...

https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-protection/vio...

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/percentage-of-w...

https://www.pbc2019.org/protection-of-minors/child...

Etc.

[anonymous-user]

Alpinestars said:

Married at 6 and consummated at 9. Apparently

Which group is responsible for most sexual abuse against young children?

Try doing some reading.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ibtimes.co.uk/c...

https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-protection/vio...

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/percentage-of-w...

https://www.pbc2019.org/protection-of-minors/child...

Etc.

I wonder if Transmitter Man has a receive button ?

[Alpinestars]

Brooking10 said:

I wonder if Transmitter Man has a receive button ?

He struggled with any critical thinking on the Tommy thread.

[Countdown]

Transmitter Man said:

So you think the minority Christians act this way as well and that maybe it's not reported?

I'm not sure you're serious about it not being a religion based issue.

Do you think that when RC priests abused children they did it for religious reasons?

[andymc]

No they did it because they were perverts and repressed homosexuals
I abhor anyone who is a pervert, be they Pakistani or catholic, I sometimes look at the world and want to cry

[j_4m]

Alpinestars said:

andymc said:

it's nothing to do with religion, AS is correct, a lot of it is cultural, women are very much second class citizens in Pakistan, especially the more rural/backward areas. A woman on her own is seen as loose/begging for it

This, together with people in the U.K. (those in the community that knew, social workers, police etc) turning a blind eye to the abuse. Hopefully not the case (or certainly not as widely the case) now.

The Islamic Council has stated that DNA tests are not satisfactory evidence in rape cases. Whatever their holy book says the religion as an institution is misogynistic.

• all institutionalised religions have a vein of misogyny running through them, but we're not currently discussing them

[rscott]

j_4m said:

Alpinestars said:

andymc said:

it's nothing to do with religion, AS is correct, a lot of it is cultural, women are very much second class citizens in Pakistan, especially the more rural/backward areas. A woman on her own is seen as loose/begging for it

This, together with people in the U.K. (those in the community that knew, social workers, police etc) turning a blind eye to the abuse. Hopefully not the case (or certainly not as widely the case) now.

The Islamic Council has stated that DNA tests are not satisfactory evidence in rape cases. Whatever their holy book says the religion as an institution is misogynistic.

• all institutionalised religions have a vein of misogyny running through them, but we're not currently discussing them

If you're talking about the Council of Islamic Ideology in Pakistan, they advised that they consider DNA not to be primary evidence in any cases ( not specific to rape) but could be considered supporting evidence. Other bodies which advise the government there gave differing advice.

Then again, rape isn't even covered by their Penal Code any more - it was removed from that and moved to a separate Ordnance in the 1970s. That has stronger punishments but much higher evidential requirements, which seems to mean fewer prosecutions succeed.

[Alpinestars]

j_4m said:

Alpinestars said:

andymc said:

it's nothing to do with religion, AS is correct, a lot of it is cultural, women are very much second class citizens in Pakistan, especially the more rural/backward areas. A woman on her own is seen as loose/begging for it

This, together with people in the U.K. (those in the community that knew, social workers, police etc) turning a blind eye to the abuse. Hopefully not the case (or certainly not as widely the case) now.

The Islamic Council has stated that DNA tests are not satisfactory evidence in rape cases. Whatever their holy book says the religion as an institution is misogynistic.

• all institutionalised religions have a vein of misogyny running through them, but we're not currently discussing them

Nearly all religions are misogynistic.

[Countdown]

andymc said:

No they did it because they were perverts and repressed homosexuals
I abhor anyone who is a pervert, be they Pakistani or catholic, I sometimes look at the world and want to cry

I agree with you.

Pakistani perverts aren't perverts because they're muslim, any more than RC priests/Scoutmasters/Radio 1 DJs etc are perverts because they're Christian.

[Mothersruin]

Countdown said:

andymc said:

No they did it because they were perverts and repressed homosexuals
I abhor anyone who is a pervert, be they Pakistani or catholic, I sometimes look at the world and want to cry

I agree with you.

Pakistani perverts aren't perverts because they're muslim, any more than RC priests/Scoutmasters/Radio 1 DJs etc are perverts because they're Christian.

Agreed.

However, it's hard to deny the religion gave them a shield against the authorities due to fear of isms etc...

[jshell]

Brooking10 said:

jshell said:

Brooking10 said:

jshell said:

Alpinestars said:

jshell said:

I didn't mention Muslims, I tend not to... However, there are areas of the world that are particularly dangerous for women due to lack of education/wrong type of education/religiously taught intolerance etc.

For sure. So more generally, it’s a male problem. Power, entitlement, gratification, opportunity etc.

I'm not really seeing it in South America, not in Africa when I lived there. Poor parts of Russia perhaps, no? Point us to it then...

For clarity are you saying that in your view organised paedophilic behaviour is less prevalent in those areas ?

I never mentioned paedophilic behaviour! Anywhere.

Hi k let’s try again

Are you saying that in those areas women are less likely to find themselves assaulted /threatened/subjugated ?

Thing is I think we both know what you are getting it so probably easiest if you just come out and say it.

It makes debate much easier.

What do you want me to say? That Muslims are more prone to prey on young girls in the UK, or anywhere else? I don't believe that's necessarily true.

Actually, this whole thread is about the disproportionate representation of certain demographics in highly organised. well publicised abuse gangs that tend to be from a small part of one country. They are more than sex attackers, they are taught through their perverted version of a religion that it's OK to prey on young, vulnerable girls from certain backgrounds identified by 'their' religion as viable targets. They are well organised physical abusers and traffickers that see their victims as 'nothing' to be concerned about. Their common traits and origins speak volumes about their motives and justifications.

There are problems everywhere in the world, to greater or lesser degrees, so people could start threads on those specifics. Maybe honour killings, priests, acid attacks, forced marriage, kids club stewards, sex slavery, blaming rape victims, gymnastics coaches, murdering rape victims etc, etc... But, this thread has pointed out the common origins of one set of attackers and their huge numbers and common MO's. Some of the posters are just here to deflect the focus where perhaps their own communities could actually help the victims...

Edited by jshell on Tuesday 25th June 13:33