another abuse gang
Discussion
Can we all agree it can never happen again? 30,000 and counting girls raped/abused by sub human scum, blame the authorities, blame the BP community, blame the parents etc etc, there is only one group who needs to be imprisoned and the key thrown away, have the authorities stated they have put measures in place to stop it happening again? The fact that they used the term Asian grooming gangs tell me they're still scared of offending people, yes it's almost all Pakistani men much much like kiddy fiddlers are White English men, why have they done it? Mainly because we let them, similar to the autonomy Catholic priests had, God the World depresses me at times
Can someone answer me this, I have seen numerous mentions of this being down to groups of men from a very particular area of Pakistan and there settlement now over here and the generations that followed.
Have me in this group all settled in similar areas in the UK to other groups of Muslims, like Watford, Luton, Slough etc etc, or are they a bit of a secular/ tribal thing where these groups have tended to be in the Northern part of England and not made it in such large numbers to the South Eastm as so far not much of this stuff seems to have been exposed down here?
Have me in this group all settled in similar areas in the UK to other groups of Muslims, like Watford, Luton, Slough etc etc, or are they a bit of a secular/ tribal thing where these groups have tended to be in the Northern part of England and not made it in such large numbers to the South Eastm as so far not much of this stuff seems to have been exposed down here?
Countdown said:
I've asked this before - snipped for brevity
And we both know that this has been debated an awful lot on here over the years. Answers have been given. Some agree, some disagree. It really isn't worth going around this particular Wrekin again.I will restate though, that the 'cos Allah' simplistic arguments are as wrong as the 'nowt to do with Islam' positions. It's a complex religious, cultural and educational mix, baked in an oven of tragic circumstances, fear and cowardice.
The rampant whataboutism that has characterised every iteration of this debate is as sad and disappointing as the stories from the victims themselves.
I've said many times that understanding how this kind of thing comes about in the various different forms that it happens (gangs, lone wolfs, sex tourists, priests, scout masters etc) is part of the key to ensuring that it doesn't happen again. Each grouping has it's own modus operandi and enabling factors. One size does not fit all.
Edited by andymadmak on Thursday 30th January 19:21
andymadmak said:
And we both know that this has been debated an awful lot on here over the years. Answers have been given. Some agree, some disagree. It really isn't worth going around this particular Wrekin again.
I will restate though, that the 'cos Allah' simplistic arguments are as wrong as the 'nowt to do with Islam' positions. It's a complex religious, cultural and educational mix, baked in an oven of tragic circumstances, fear and cowardice.
The rampant whataboutism that has characterised every iteration of this debate is as sad and disappointing as the stories from the victims themselves.
I've said many times that understanding how this kind of thing comes about in the various different forms that it happens (gangs, lone wolfs, sex tourists, priests, scout masters etc) is part of the key to ensuring that it doesn't happen again. Each grouping has it's own modus operandi and enabling factors. One size does not fit all.
Again I agree with most of that. But genuinely don’t see the Islamic link. Cultural, for sure. Islamic, no. I will restate though, that the 'cos Allah' simplistic arguments are as wrong as the 'nowt to do with Islam' positions. It's a complex religious, cultural and educational mix, baked in an oven of tragic circumstances, fear and cowardice.
The rampant whataboutism that has characterised every iteration of this debate is as sad and disappointing as the stories from the victims themselves.
I've said many times that understanding how this kind of thing comes about in the various different forms that it happens (gangs, lone wolfs, sex tourists, priests, scout masters etc) is part of the key to ensuring that it doesn't happen again. Each grouping has it's own modus operandi and enabling factors. One size does not fit all.
Edited by andymadmak on Thursday 30th January 19:21
Alpinestars said:
Again I agree with most of that. But genuinely don’t see the Islamic link. Cultural, for sure. Islamic, no.
Religions do not teach evil behaviours, but they can be used to excuse and justify behaviours. Whether the Crusades, the Hordes, the Inquisition or the Rape gangs. That is often A link...jshell said:
Same as my post above. It can be used in justification by perverted minds. It's not a reason in itself.
But what part of Islamic texts or traditions? It seems an odd claim. I don't know a lot about it, but I know people (often evangelical atheists) like to claim Catholicism enables paedophilia and the church backed the Nazis, slavery etc. There's a kernel of truth to it but I consider those greatly exaggerated claims.
I'm curious as to whether it is the same for this claim about Islam. I know Mohammad had a young wife but that was 1400 years ago in Arabia, I don't see the connection with Muslims in 21st century England.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
But what part of Islamic texts or traditions?
It seems an odd claim. I don't know a lot about it, but I know people (often evangelical atheists) like to claim Catholicism enables paedophilia and the church backed the Nazis, slavery etc. There's a kernel of truth to it but I consider those greatly exaggerated claims.
Erm - well, this is awkward. It seems an odd claim. I don't know a lot about it, but I know people (often evangelical atheists) like to claim Catholicism enables paedophilia and the church backed the Nazis, slavery etc. There's a kernel of truth to it but I consider those greatly exaggerated claims.
It is rather well documented that the Catholic Church turned a blind eye to Hitler's activities.
If you have a spare 15 minutes in your diary - do your own research and report back.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
jshell said:
Same as my post above. It can be used in justification by perverted minds. It's not a reason in itself.
But what part of Islamic texts or traditions? It seems an odd claim. I don't know a lot about it, but I know people (often evangelical atheists) like to claim Catholicism enables paedophilia and the church backed the Nazis, slavery etc. There's a kernel of truth to it but I consider those greatly exaggerated claims.
I'm curious as to whether it is the same for this claim about Islam. I know Mohammad had a young wife but that was 1400 years ago in Arabia, I don't see the connection with Muslims in 21st century England.
One of the other factors often mentioned is the sense that 'the community' could not be blind to what was happening on an industrial scale.
Personally I have never blamed 'Islam'. I only get annoyed when there is deflection from it being one of the common factors.
jshell said:
I don't think it does per se, that's never what I've said certainly. But, there are clear links of common religion and societal roots in those gangs. However, all studies and the Hansard quotes above see the common factors.
One of the other factors often mentioned is the sense that 'the community' could not be blind to what was happening on an industrial scale.
Personally I have never blamed 'Islam'. I only get annoyed when there is deflection from it being one of the common factors.
Do you accept British is also a common factor?One of the other factors often mentioned is the sense that 'the community' could not be blind to what was happening on an industrial scale.
Personally I have never blamed 'Islam'. I only get annoyed when there is deflection from it being one of the common factors.
TTwiggy said:
jshell said:
Alpinestars said:
Do you accept British is also a common factor?
I don't know, do they consider themselves to be British with what would once have been referred to as 'British values'? TTwiggy said:
jshell said:
Alpinestars said:
Do you accept British is also a common factor?
I don't know, do they consider themselves to be British with what would once have been referred to as 'British values'? jshell said:
TTwiggy said:
jshell said:
Alpinestars said:
Do you accept British is also a common factor?
I don't know, do they consider themselves to be British with what would once have been referred to as 'British values'? Alpinestars said:
jshell said:
TTwiggy said:
jshell said:
Alpinestars said:
Do you accept British is also a common factor?
I don't know, do they consider themselves to be British with what would once have been referred to as 'British values'? TTwiggy said:
jshell said:
I think you missed Alpine's point by a country mile...
I don’t think I did. They don’t follow Muslim doctrine. They have no Muslim values.I’d agree with the poster above who questioned whether they had any values at all.
I always said that the religious aspect was a small part, but by the endless attempts at swerving here anyone reading this can only see stronger evidence of those links.
I even took the time to set the signs of religious links in bold. You know, where one of the worst victims of the endless rape, violence, forced abortions and numerous marriages under Sharia law together with being forced to learn the Koran...
Keep going. I'm happy to discuss all of the factors without favour, but keep up the 'Whataboutism' and it's easy to drag it back.
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