another abuse gang

[LimSlip]

LukeBrown66 said:

Removing the aspect of most rape gangs men being Pakistani or taxi drivers, that removes about 80% of them from the equation, in certain towns there are literally thousands of cabbies, it is why there are large Pakistani populations near airports, mainly as property used to be cheap and they can cab on the side

My point also being that there is a higher propensity of this stuff reported going on up North and not down South, does anyone know why this might be? Is it tribal, origin etc Suni Shia etc?

I think the word "reported" is important, it seems entirely likely to be occurring in larger cities in the south. The London major doesn't seem too comfortable discussing this for some reason.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

s1962a said:

Who are they trying not to offend exactly? Get the rot out and convict these scum for what they have done.

I think that is the bizarre paradox right at the heart of this.

If you actually believe that this is nothing to do with Islam and only a tiny minority of Muslims are involved, while the vast majority are as disgusted as the rest of us then there is absolutely no excuse. Tear in and hit these bds with everything you've got.

Making this a race/religious issue only makes any sense if you believe it actually is somehow racial or religious in character.

[s1962a]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

s1962a said:

Who are they trying not to offend exactly? Get the rot out and convict these scum for what they have done.

I think that is the bizarre paradox right at the heart of this.

If you actually believe that this is nothing to do with Islam and only a tiny minority of Muslims are involved, while the vast majority are as disgusted as the rest of us then there is absolutely no excuse. Tear in and hit these bds with everything you've got.

Making this a race/religious issue only makes any sense if you believe it actually is somehow racial or religious in character.

Agree, but whats with the muslim angle? If you look at the backgrounds of a lot of the perpetrators - it's mainly Pakistani origins. The muslim angle sounds a bit superfluous. I don't think anyone from the UK Pakistani communities would be upset at the police going after the criminals here.

edit: I see we are saying the same thing here.

I would be in favour of going after these sexual predators with everything we got - even having to lower the bar to secure convictions.

[Digga]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Making this a race/religious issue only makes any sense if you believe it actually is somehow racial or religious in character.

Agreed. The granularity of data on the previously convicted gang members elsewhere proves this is not a broadly racial or religious issue. It is very specific and allowing any for of it to appear to go unchecked besmirches the good character of a significant population of British people.

[s1962a]

Digga said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Making this a race/religious issue only makes any sense if you believe it actually is somehow racial or religious in character.

Agreed. The granularity of data on the previously convicted gang members elsewhere proves this is not a broadly racial or religious issue. It is very specific and allowing any for of it to appear to go unchecked besmirches the good character of a significant population of British people.

I am from Pakistani origins, and I find what is going here absolutely disgusting, and I don't understand why more people aren't getting put in jail for these horrendous acts. In fact, whenever it has come up in discussions everyone I know is digusted by it as well, and i've heard no "yeah, but" arguments. And people can't understand how so many Pakistani men are involved.

[Digga]

s1962a said:

Digga said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Making this a race/religious issue only makes any sense if you believe it actually is somehow racial or religious in character.

Agreed. The granularity of data on the previously convicted gang members elsewhere proves this is not a broadly racial or religious issue. It is very specific and allowing any for of it to appear to go unchecked besmirches the good character of a significant population of British people.

I am from Pakistani origins, and I find what is going here absolutely disgusting, and I don't understand why more people aren't getting put in jail for these horrendous acts. In fact, whenever it has come up in discussions everyone I know is digusted by it as well, and i've heard no "yeah, but" arguments. And people can't understand how so many Pakistani men are involved.

Forgive me when I say this - it's not for your benefit, but perhaps the benefit of others - Pakistan is a huge country.

From what I understood, the profile of a large number of abusers was generally from a fairly specific region. I guess, what I am saying is, it is parallel to saying a lot of British people die because of appallingly bad diet when, in fact, there are some fairly specific areas of the country which hugely ramp up the average.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

s1962a said:

Agree, but whats with the muslim angle? If you look at the backgrounds of a lot of the perpetrators - it's mainly Pakistani origins. The muslim angle sounds a bit superfluous. I don't think anyone from the UK Pakistani communities would be upset at the police going after the criminals here.

edit: I see we are saying the same thing here.

I would be in favour of going after these sexual predators with everything we got - even having to lower the bar to secure convictions.

I think there have been instances where the perpetrators have used terms like "kuffir," which (as best I understand it) is a derogatory term for a non-believer. Perhaps something like "heathen" or "savage" with the implication that they are a worthless being who can be used or abused at will.

There are definitely instances where both champions of a particular sort of diversity and certain Muslims say that this is all driven by racism and hatred.

I'll point out here that I don't for a minute think that this is how ordinary Muslims view non Muslims in general, but it appears that this does have some historical basis. Similar to "Islamist" terrorism it perhaps takes a germ of historical truth and turns that into an excuse or even a motive for attitudes and behaviour which would otherwise be considered appalling.

[andymc]

Digga said:

s1962a said:

Digga said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Making this a race/religious issue only makes any sense if you believe it actually is somehow racial or religious in character.

Agreed. The granularity of data on the previously convicted gang members elsewhere proves this is not a broadly racial or religious issue. It is very specific and allowing any for of it to appear to go unchecked besmirches the good character of a significant population of British people.

I am from Pakistani origins, and I find what is going here absolutely disgusting, and I don't understand why more people aren't getting put in jail for these horrendous acts. In fact, whenever it has come up in discussions everyone I know is digusted by it as well, and i've heard no "yeah, but" arguments. And people can't understand how so many Pakistani men are involved.

Forgive me when I say this - it's not for your benefit, but perhaps the benefit of others - Pakistan is a huge country.

From what I understood, the profile of a large number of abusers was generally from a fairly specific region. I guess, what I am saying is, it is parallel to saying a lot of British people die because of appallingly bad diet when, in fact, there are some fairly specific areas of the country which hugely ramp up the average.

was MIrpuri mentioned?

Edited by andymc on Wednesday 1st December 13:30

[JuanCarlosFandango]

s1962a said:

I would be in favour of going after these sexual predators with everything we got - even having to lower the bar to secure convictions.

I'm just not convinced that the bar is the problem, and wrongful convictions help nobody. It seems that cases were never even brought because there was a feeling that this was something that happened to troubled kids from bad families or council care jokes who would probably end up in trouble anyway. While even spurious accusations of racism could be extremely damaging.

[Digga]

andymc said:

Digga said:

s1962a said:

Digga said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Making this a race/religious issue only makes any sense if you believe it actually is somehow racial or religious in character.

Agreed. The granularity of data on the previously convicted gang members elsewhere proves this is not a broadly racial or religious issue. It is very specific and allowing any for of it to appear to go unchecked besmirches the good character of a significant population of British people.

I am from Pakistani origins, and I find what is going here absolutely disgusting, and I don't understand why more people aren't getting put in jail for these horrendous acts. In fact, whenever it has come up in discussions everyone I know is digusted by it as well, and i've heard no "yeah, but" arguments. And people can't understand how so many Pakistani men are involved.

Forgive me when I say this - it's not for your benefit, but perhaps the benefit of others - Pakistan is a huge country.

From what I understood, the profile of a large number of abusers was generally from a fairly specific region. I guess, what I am saying is, it is parallel to saying a lot of British people die because of appallingly bad diet when, in fact, there are some fairly specific areas of the country which hugely ramp up the average.

was MIrpuri mantioned?

At one point.

I think it reasonable and uncontroversial to suggest that in any country, those furthest from metropolitan areas will have slightly less advanced or enlightened views and perhaps more deeply entrenched superstitions and prejudices.

[andyA700]

Transmitter Man said:

andyA700 said:

As far as I am aware, it was only Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion who spoke up about the abuse, and they in turn received abuse from the Labour party. What an absolute disgrace. Sajid Javid spoke out about the abusers.

Andy, Do you know if any or all of these party abusers were ever named in print?

There is a good account here of what was happening back in 2018.

https://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2018/02/02...

This guy was the former Labour deputy leader of Rotherham council, until a Times news report, claimed that he may have known about one of the abused girls, because he was related to the abuser.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorksh...

There was also this about Akhtar

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/26/ro...

[andyA700]

LimSlip said:

LukeBrown66 said:

Removing the aspect of most rape gangs men being Pakistani or taxi drivers, that removes about 80% of them from the equation, in certain towns there are literally thousands of cabbies, it is why there are large Pakistani populations near airports, mainly as property used to be cheap and they can cab on the side

My point also being that there is a higher propensity of this stuff reported going on up North and not down South, does anyone know why this might be? Is it tribal, origin etc Suni Shia etc?

I think the word "reported" is important, it seems entirely likely to be occurring in larger cities in the south. The London major doesn't seem too comfortable discussing this for some reason.

I don;t know who David Kurten is, but if I lived in London he would get my vote for mayor.

[andyA700]

Back in 2017, Labour MP Naz Shah retweeted and liked the following:

"Those abused girls in Rotherham and elsewhere just need to shut their mouths, For the good of diversity"

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4358394/labour-mp-ro...

[freakybacon]

Merry Christmas from Bradford.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-597845...

[LukeBrown66]

I stand educated then.

I lived in Luton for 6 years and am convinced this stuff was going on there, perhaps not as rife as other places as largely the white populace has left and moved away or are concentrated in certain areas where these men do not work or live so much, but it surely must be going on in such a very militant area of Pakistani men, would not also be shocked to hear of it going in Watford or Chesham.

[Abdul Abulbul Amir]

freakybacon said:

Merry Christmas from Bradford.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-597845...

Somehow I suspect many of the arrested weren't going to celebrate Christmas anyway.

[andyA700]

LukeBrown66 said:

I stand educated then.

I lived in Luton for 6 years and am convinced this stuff was going on there, perhaps not as rife as other places as largely the white populace has left and moved away or are concentrated in certain areas where these men do not work or live so much, but it surely must be going on in such a very militant area of Pakistani men, would not also be shocked to hear of it going in Watford or Chesham.

Did you ever see Stacey Dooley's documentary about Luton? She was born there, as was I, How times have changed.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3cjs5v

[LukeBrown66]

I could mate but I would have to listen to that voice and Im sorry but I cant!!

[freakybacon]

freakybacon said:

BBC link (hidden away in local news). Eldest accused is 83 years old.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-594632...

Now in court.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-598284...

[LukeBrown66]

What is interesting here is the few women that are involved, all English it seems or maybe gypsy I can't tell, one of them had an Irish name, maybe used to get hold of these girls and seemingly rent out property to these rapists.

No shock with the rest of the names and also the location, I do wonder what happens when and if this moves down South and starts getting reported, still amazes me how all the court cases seem to be in similar areas.