7 yr old and forced Radiotherapy

[ajprice]

Just saw this on the news, the court judge's comment about his quality of life is that he won't have one if he's dead. I'm with the court and the husband, treatment is his best chance, not thinking about it and maybe going herbal at some point.

[Marf]

Jasandjules said:

Marf said:

Jas, you're scaremongering, there's no other way to describe it.

Don't be silly, the course of treatment has been put in place so it matters not what I am saying. I just wonder what I would do in this situation - I know people who have chosen the no treatment option as they couldn't cope with the outcome of it the first time and didn't want to go through it again when the cancer came back.

I just hope it all works out for this poor little chap.

So do I, and I'm still waiting for you to explain how in this boy's case radiotherapy could kill him. Bringing up that list of unrelated possible side effects is irrelevant.

I tell you what, I'll make things easier for you. I work with the equipment in question so I know a little about it, the regulatory environment it operates within and the huge amount of safety and redundancy built into treatment systems and the planning process.

Radiotherapy could not directly kill you unless you were exposed to the highest energy available from today's latest generation radiotherapy equipment for extended times in a single location(heart, head, liver) having ignored a number of safegaurds throughout the various software systems a radiotherapy treatment plan goes through before hitting the actual radiotherapy hardware and delivering the dose.

Cases like this hit the news and hospitals get sued and their license to treat revoked until they can satisfy the regulatory authorities that such an incident would never happen again.

I'm sure people do pass having received palliative radiotherapy, however it will not have been the radiotherapy that killed them, the cancer does a good job of that and the radiotherapy in these cases is slowing it's growth.

It's not like chemo which knocks out your immune system leaving you open to infections which you'd normally deal with just fine.

Edited by Marf on Friday 21st December 18:33

[vonuber]

It's the kid I feel sorry for. Having been in that situation I trusted tge neurosurgeon as he knew better than me given it was his job. If my other half had suggested crystal therapy or something instead well then she wouldn't be my other half still. And I'd be dead.

[DonkeyApple]

Jasandjules said:

Possible long-term side effects

Here we discuss some of the long-term side effects that can occur, but they will depend on the part of the body that was treated, so you won’t necessarily experience all of them.

Long-term side effects can take months and sometimes years to develop:
•Hair loss can be permanent or new hair growth may be a different colour or texture to what it was before.
•The skin can feel different or may be darker than before.
•Infertility can occur if the ovaries or testicles are within the treatment area.
•Swelling in a limb or on the body (lymphoedema) can develop when lymph nodes are damaged during treatment.
•Red ‘spidery’ marks (telangectasia) may appear on the skin because small blood vessels are damaged, but this is very rare.
•Shortness of breath can happen, as radiotherapy can make the lungs less stretchy.
•Narrowing of the vagina can occur.
•Difficulty swallowing can occur due to a narrowing of the gullet (oesophagus) or reduced amounts of saliva.
•Passing a lot of urine can sometimes happen if the bladder becomes less stretchy after radiotherapy.

Reads like a sales list at an Essex beauty salon.

[rohrl]

On the one hands there's the chance of possible side-effects. On the other hand it's certain death. Not much of a choice really is it?

[Oakey]

wolves_wanderer said:

what a daft thing to say. The radiotherapy may not work, but it stands a better chance than whatever complementary medicine she is proposing as treatment. In a case where the parents are at loggerheads with one wanting medical treatment, the other not, it is entirely right that he receives treatment.

jasandjules is a firm believer in 'woo' because his homepathic vet cured his dog with magic water

[Pesty]

Derek Smith said:

Muzzer79 said:

She named the kid 'Neon'

That tells you all you need to know....

Isn't that the name the court gave him in order to protect his identity?

I don't think so. They Identified him when she went on the run in an attempt to find him.

His pictures and hers have been all over the press.

[rohrl]

Pesty said:

Derek Smith said:

Muzzer79 said:

She named the kid 'Neon'

That tells you all you need to know....

Isn't that the name the court gave him in order to protect his identity?

I don't think so. They Identified him when she went on the run in an attempt to find him.

His pictures and hers have been all over the press.

Neon is his real name. As Pesty says the court made the very unusual decision given his youth to release his name and photo as time was such a factor in this case.

[mph1977]

Jasandjules said:

Possible long-term side effects

Here we discuss some of the long-term side effects that can occur, but they will depend on the part of the body that was treated, so you won’t necessarily experience all of them.

Long-term side effects can take months and sometimes years to develop:
•Hair loss can be permanent or new hair growth may be a different colour or texture to what it was before.
•The skin can feel different or may be darker than before.
•Red ‘spidery’ marks (telangectasia) may appear on the skin because small blood vessels are damaged, but this is very rare.

valid concerns but they are primarily cosmetic

Jasandjules said:

•Swelling in a limb or on the body (lymphoedema) can develop when lymph nodes are damaged during treatment.

more of a concern with breast /lung/abdo tumours

Jasandjules said:

•Infertility can occur if the ovaries or testicles are within the treatment area.
•Shortness of breath can happen, as radiotherapy can make the lungs less stretchy.
•Narrowing of the vagina can occur.
•Difficulty swallowing can occur due to a narrowing of the gullet (oesophagus) or reduced amounts of saliva.
•Passing a lot of urine can sometimes happen if the bladder becomes less stretchy after radiotherapy.

none of which are likely with a brain primary - as marf points out the, more powerful version of an X-ray, radiation , is very well controlled and focused. with the doses to none target areas minimised by focusing,moving and combining beams to give the dose at the necessary point

there are a few Treatments which use'implanted' radioactive materials but iirc it;s mainly gynae

Edited by mph1977 on Friday 21st December 19:17

[Oakey]

Just to add, my mother recently went through a month of radiotherapy treatment with no ill side effects.

[skinley]

srebbe64 said:

Far be it for me to judge, but the mother seems to be rather enjoying the limelight. Or am I being too cynical ???

I had exactly the same thought when I saw her on TV yesterday.

[MilnerR]

Any procedure that uses radiation is potentially dangerous, x-rays (both single and ct scans) contribute to hundreds of cancers every year (we all take that risk quite happily). The question is risk-benefit; in this tragic case the risk is that a 7 year old boy will die if not treated. The risk of treatment is a small chance that there may be some manageable off target effects. The benefit is an estimated 80% chance (according to the specialist interviewed on the bbc) that the boys life will be saved and he will have a shot at growing up and having a good quality of life.

Anyway it doesn't matter, the right to choose doesn't rest with the mother

[XCP]

I take tablets to stop smoking and for gout. The list of possible side effects mentioned on the information sheets helpfully provided is truly horrific.

[tvrolet]

Jasandjules said:

Possible long-term side effects

Here we discuss some of the long-term side effects that can occur, but they will depend on the part of the body that was treated, so you won’t necessarily experience all of them.

Long-term side effects can take months and sometimes years to develop:
•Hair loss can be permanent or new hair growth may be a different colour or texture to what it was before.
•The skin can feel different or may be darker than before.
•Infertility can occur if the ovaries or testicles are within the treatment area.
•Swelling in a limb or on the body (lymphoedema) can develop when lymph nodes are damaged during treatment.
•Red ‘spidery’ marks (telangectasia) may appear on the skin because small blood vessels are damaged, but this is very rare.
•Shortness of breath can happen, as radiotherapy can make the lungs less stretchy.
•Narrowing of the vagina can occur.
•Difficulty swallowing can occur due to a narrowing of the gullet (oesophagus) or reduced amounts of saliva.
•Passing a lot of urine can sometimes happen if the bladder becomes less stretchy after radiotherapy.

My wife had radiotherapy over 25 years ago, and things were far less precice then. Since then, 2 kids and 25 more years of being on this planet. Without it there is no doubt she wouldn't have seen 1986 in. Unfortunately she had another unrelated cancer in 2010, and again radiotherapy after surgery. Yup, some of the side effects you state but again she's still here - which would not have been the case without it. Pretty easy call in my book.

My father had radiotherapy after surgery and while it didn't cure his cancer, it certainly gave him a few extra years. Similarly, my mother's cancer was kept at bay for a few more years with radiotherapy. The gene pool isn't looking too bright though...

Yes there are side effects, but folks don't walk around glowing in the dark afterwards. They don't just give you an isotope to hold against your body for a while - it's all fairly scientific with very targetted and measured doses. It may not be ideal and at some point a better therapy may be found, but before considering the side effects you really have to take on board the very real and inescapable alternative.

EDIT - I should add that with the media surrouding this, it could seem like this is the only kid lined up for radiotherapy in the UK. You need to take a trip to some cancer wards - it's quite dreadful with folks of all ages, and yes - kids. There are just so many folks with cancers these days. I'm sure when/if he gets his treatment he'll just be processed with his 10-minute slot or whatever, with a queue of folks before him, and a queue of folks after him. There are many many other kids going thorugh this right now; the only thing about his case that's different is his dopey media-savvy mother.

Edited by tvrolet on Friday 21st December 20:10

[Jasandjules]

Fingers crossed for the lad.

[Engineer1]

rohrl said:

On the one hands there's the chance of possible side-effects. On the other hand it's certain death. Not much of a choice really is it?

Well the mother's preferred treatment has very few long term side effects...

Shame that's because the patient will probably die before they get to long term.

[RealSquirrels]

Muzzer79 said:

DonkeyApple said:

Do we know what the alternate course is that the mother wants?

Court Case said:

The suggestions included immunotherapy, radioimmunotherapy, BMCT therapy, molecular targeted therapies involving biological agents, photodynamic therapy, the use of Tyrosine Kinase Inhibitors and treatment through diet and lifestyle.

So, basically, hocus pocus.

She named the kid 'Neon'

That tells you all you need to know....

a lot of them are credible treatments founded on strong science, actually.

immunotherapy, radioimmunotheraphy, targeted molecular therapies, photodynamic therapies, tyrosine kinase inhibitors are all founded in proper science, although some of them may not have seen widespread use in the clinic.

clearly diet and lifestyle has a role to play in the treatment of cancer but you'd be a loony to rely on them alone in preference to proven treatments.

I've no idea what BMCT is.

[El Guapo]

skinley said:

srebbe64 said:

Far be it for me to judge, but the mother seems to be rather enjoying the limelight. Or am I being too cynical ???

I had exactly the same thought when I saw her on TV yesterday.

And me. She should concentrate less on trying to look alluring for the cameras and more on doing the best for her son.

[bexVN]

I would not hesitate if it were my son but I would kook at using other treatments alongside.

If it weren't for radiotherapy my husband would not be here now. He had an aggressive tumour removed from inside in his nose. He had to have weeks of radiotherapy to eradicate it. That was almost 30 years, he is extremely intelligent and we have a child. Risks are there as with everything but I have no doubt they're worth it.

Alternatives are risky esp as most are unproven

I feel for the Mother but she has herself admitted that the treatments she has suggedted have no proper backing/ results, how is that less risky than the radiotherapy?

[GavinPearson]

Does anybody have access to data showing what the success rate of radiotherapy is in cases similar to what this boy is suffering from?