Fiscal Cliff

[Digga]

turbobloke said:

Digga said:

devonshiredave said:

This should be fun..... Just hope the markets keep confidence in Americas ability to pay.

Is there a world series for kicking the can?

There will come a time surely, where the credibility of the USD as reserve currency passes a tipping point and markets re-align?

Then it will get ugly, but for now this is all part of the race to the bottom.

Ineffective government + Credulous electorate + Stein's Law = USA facing major problems

Stein's Law: What cannot go on forever will not go on forever.

Short-term it's all wonderful!

Seems the fact - although widely reported throughout last year - has yet to reach the US public and the majority of their elected representatives.

They still think they can get away with the attitude of the 1971, U.S. Treasury Secretary John Connally who said, "It's our currency and your problem".

[anonymous-user]

Obama is, if nothing else, a consummate politician (using that term as a compliment), as he showed when pushing through Obamacare, and again recently. Working with a divided and partisan legislature, it is sometimes surprising that he can do anything, but he does.

[crazy about cars]

This cliff in Dover somewhere?

[unrepentant]

Digga said:

turbobloke said:

Digga said:

devonshiredave said:

This should be fun..... Just hope the markets keep confidence in Americas ability to pay.

Is there a world series for kicking the can?

There will come a time surely, where the credibility of the USD as reserve currency passes a tipping point and markets re-align?

Then it will get ugly, but for now this is all part of the race to the bottom.

Ineffective government + Credulous electorate + Stein's Law = USA facing major problems

Stein's Law: What cannot go on forever will not go on forever.

Short-term it's all wonderful!

Seems the fact - although widely reported throughout last year - has yet to reach the US public and the majority of their elected representatives.

They still think they can get away with the attitude of the 1971, U.S. Treasury Secretary John Connally who said, "It's our currency and your problem".

The defecit will fall substantially over the next 4 years as the economy grows, even the republicans agree with that. Fact is we have a growing economy, most of Europe does not. The reason for that is the policy of stimulation rather than austerity. The republicans approach in 2008 was to cut taxes for the rich and slash spending EU style. By 2012 their approach was to ........... cut taxes for the rich and slash spending EU style. GWB cut taxes and it left us with the defecit that Obama inherited. No Bush tax cuts and no Iraq war and we wouldn't have a defecit.

Economically I'd far rather be here with Obamanomics that there with gormless George and dumb Dave in charge.

[Mojocvh]

"Truth"

Non PC possibly NSFW...unrepentant you will feel pain...

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/10-12-...

Edited by Mojocvh on Wednesday 2nd January 19:10

[JagLover]

I am no fan on the intransience of the Republicans at times but neither am I of a President who seems incapable of compromise in his own right and seems unable to recognise that without action on the spending side of the equation America is headed towards bankruptcy.

The tax plan agreed will only reduce the 10 year deficit by just over 5%, where is the rest coming from.

As for whether this represents a defeat for the Republicans, I think the picture is more mixed than that. They had a poor hand and did they best they could. Faced with a president unwilling to negotiate they managed to avoid significant tax rises on middle America. The story is not yet over as the automatic spending cuts have been delayed for only two months and they still need to raise the debt ceiling. If they hold their nerve they still have the chance to force through the reform to entitlement spending needed to return the US to fiscal sanity in the medium term.

[London424]

unrepentant said:

Digga said:

turbobloke said:

Digga said:

devonshiredave said:

This should be fun..... Just hope the markets keep confidence in Americas ability to pay.

Is there a world series for kicking the can?

There will come a time surely, where the credibility of the USD as reserve currency passes a tipping point and markets re-align?

Then it will get ugly, but for now this is all part of the race to the bottom.

Ineffective government + Credulous electorate + Stein's Law = USA facing major problems

Stein's Law: What cannot go on forever will not go on forever.

Short-term it's all wonderful!

Seems the fact - although widely reported throughout last year - has yet to reach the US public and the majority of their elected representatives.

They still think they can get away with the attitude of the 1971, U.S. Treasury Secretary John Connally who said, "It's our currency and your problem".

The defecit will fall substantially over the next 4 years as the economy grows, even the republicans agree with that. Fact is we have a growing economy, most of Europe does not. The reason for that is the policy of stimulation rather than austerity. The republicans approach in 2008 was to cut taxes for the rich and slash spending EU style. By 2012 their approach was to ........... cut taxes for the rich and slash spending EU style. GWB cut taxes and it left us with the defecit that Obama inherited. No Bush tax cuts and no Iraq war and we wouldn't have a defecit.

Economically I'd far rather be here with Obamanomics that there with gormless George and dumb Dave in charge.

You have a "growing" economy fuelled by debt. So really not growing at all. Anyone can make figures look good when you have a blank cheque book.

When are you planning on paying any of this back.

[turbobloke]

Breadvan72 said:

Obama is, if nothing else, a consummate politician (using that term as a compliment), as he showed when pushing through Obamacare, and again recently. Working with a divided and partisan legislature, it is sometimes surprising that he can do anything, but he does.

Nobody has denied that Obama, like Blair, could sell snake oil to snakes.

London424 said:

unrepentant said:

Digga said:

turbobloke said:

Digga said:

devonshiredave said:

This should be fun..... Just hope the markets keep confidence in Americas ability to pay.

Is there a world series for kicking the can?

There will come a time surely, where the credibility of the USD as reserve currency passes a tipping point and markets re-align?

Then it will get ugly, but for now this is all part of the race to the bottom.

Ineffective government + Credulous electorate + Stein's Law = USA facing major problems

Stein's Law: What cannot go on forever will not go on forever.

Short-term it's all wonderful!

Seems the fact - although widely reported throughout last year - has yet to reach the US public and the majority of their elected representatives.

They still think they can get away with the attitude of the 1971, U.S. Treasury Secretary John Connally who said, "It's our currency and your problem".

The defecit will fall substantially over the next 4 years as the economy grows, even the republicans agree with that. Fact is we have a growing economy, most of Europe does not. The reason for that is the policy of stimulation rather than austerity. The republicans approach in 2008 was to cut taxes for the rich and slash spending EU style. By 2012 their approach was to ........... cut taxes for the rich and slash spending EU style. GWB cut taxes and it left us with the defecit that Obama inherited. No Bush tax cuts and no Iraq war and we wouldn't have a defecit.

Economically I'd far rather be here with Obamanomics that there with gormless George and dumb Dave in charge.

You have a "growing" economy fuelled by debt. So really not growing at all. Anyone can make figures look good when you have a blank cheque book.

When are you planning on paying any of this back.

Clearly not in Obama's time as POTUS so he won't care a jot as long as short-term grief is avoided.

After all, he's already got his Nobel Prize for, erm, well, for, erm...

Each kick takes the can a few metres down the road, every little helps as long as the road is long and the traffic is light with no approaching juggernauts.

[anonymous-user]

Don't you ever hanker to dine à la carte, TB, picking and choosing a bit, instead of always ordering the set menu?

[Mojocvh]

turbobloke said:

Clearly not in Obama's time as POTUS so he won't care a jot as long as short-term grief is avoided.

After all, he's already got his Nobel Prize for, erm, well, for, erm...

Each kick takes the can a few metres down the road, every little helps as long as the road is long and the traffic is light with no approaching juggernauts.

TB, you are 100% on the ball.

[Art0ir]

Of course corporate profits are at an all time high.. wages are at an all time low.

[Guybrush]

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/united...

[Digga]

Breadvan72 said:

Don't you ever hanker to dine à la carte, TB, picking and choosing a bit, instead of always ordering the set menu?

Even Geithner and the US Treasury have admitted that they will be hitting the debt limit by around 1st March - the can has not even been kicked that far down the road.

[turbobloke]

Digga said:

Breadvan72 said:

Don't you ever hanker to dine à la carte, TB, picking and choosing a bit, instead of always ordering the set menu?

Even Geithner and the US Treasury have admitted that they will be hitting the debt limit by around 1st March - the can has not even been kicked that far down the road.

That, and snake oil is never on my menu.

[Digga]

turbobloke said:

Digga said:

Breadvan72 said:

Don't you ever hanker to dine à la carte, TB, picking and choosing a bit, instead of always ordering the set menu?

Even Geithner and the US Treasury have admitted that they will be hitting the debt limit by around 1st March - the can has not even been kicked that far down the road.

That, and snake oil is never on my menu.

And it's not just us that thinks this:

Reuters said:

Bigger fights loom after U.S. "fiscal cliff" deal

...Republicans believe they will have greater leverage over Democrat Obama when they must consider raising the borrowing limit in February because failure to close a deal could mean a default on U.S. debt or another downgrade in the U.S. credit rating. A similar showdown in 2011 led to a credit downgrade...

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/01/03/uk-usa-fiscal-obama-idUKBRE8BT05320130103

[turbobloke]

Digga said:

turbobloke said:

Digga said:

Breadvan72 said:

Don't you ever hanker to dine à la carte, TB, picking and choosing a bit, instead of always ordering the set menu?

Even Geithner and the US Treasury have admitted that they will be hitting the debt limit by around 1st March - the can has not even been kicked that far down the road.

That, and snake oil is never on my menu.

And it's not just us that thinks this:

Reuters said:

Bigger fights loom after U.S. "fiscal cliff" deal

...Republicans believe they will have greater leverage over Democrat Obama when they must consider raising the borrowing limit in February because failure to close a deal could mean a default on U.S. debt or another downgrade in the U.S. credit rating. A similar showdown in 2011 led to a credit downgrade...

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/01/03/uk-usa-fiscal-obama-idUKBRE8BT05320130103

Indeed. Then again the OP will tell us who blinks first in Feb...

[unrepentant]

turbobloke said:

Indeed. Then again the OP will tell us who blinks first in Feb...

The debt ceiling will have to rise. The GOP got slammed over the debacle last time when S&P downgraded. They can huff and puff but their congressmen have to face the electorate again next year. The tea party took a pasting in Nov, can't see them wanting to go before an angry electorate again in a hurry.

[Art0ir]

unrepentant said:

The debt ceiling will have to rise.

Indeed it will, and you have the audacity to moan about the GOP challenging it

Let me guess, Krugman is your favourite economist?

[JagLover]

unrepentant said:

The debt ceiling will have to rise. The GOP got slammed over the debacle last time when S&P downgraded. They can huff and puff but their congressmen have to face the electorate again next year. The tea party took a pasting in Nov, can't see them wanting to go before an angry electorate again in a hurry.

As far as the Republicans are concerned they had to make sure that taxes weren't raised for most Americans, which they have now achieved. There is a long time before the next congressional elections so if they are ever going to make a stand this is the ideal time.

We shall have to wait and see what happens, but this 'victory' for Obama has removed the biggest concern for the Republicans while postponing the day of reckoning on spending for only two months. The additional tax revenue raised is also LESS than that offered by the Republicans as part of a 'grand bargain'.

[devonshiredave]

unrepentant said:

turbobloke said:

Indeed. Then again the OP will tell us who blinks first in Feb...

The debt ceiling will have to rise. The GOP got slammed over the debacle last time when S&P downgraded. They can huff and puff but their congressmen have to face the electorate again next year. The tea party took a pasting in Nov, can't see them wanting to go before an angry electorate again in a hurry.

In between your partisan witterings and bullst do you realise quite how clueless you are?

The debt ceiling will have to rise... So this debt fuelled recovery is going to become organic when? And when will the ever deepening hole in Americas finances come anywhere close to being repaired? Let me tell you - the answer to the latter part is quite possibly never.

You have been so drawn into the red/blue stfest that you have lost all cognitive ability!