Discussion
walm said:
randlemarcus said:
walm said:
I am not a particularly pinko commie but I do happen to think that there is some merit in the concept of:
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
Sadly, the merit stays to the left of the comma."From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
Not what we have now - but SOMETHING!
The welfare state should provide for the benefit of society (training nurses, doctors, teachers, soldiers etc...) and should provide protection to those who contribute to society and the welfare system.
I'm quite happy to fund a welfare state that pays the mortgage of a rich banker who has been made redundant and takes 4 months to find a new job. I'm quite happy to fund free higher education for a doctor who goes on to earn a large salary with the NHS.
I don't want to fund some lazy work-shy person who wants his rent paid every month for life. I don't want to fund higher education for a non-degree which will never benefit a future career.
KingNothing said:
On the subject of income tax, the ultimate fair way of collecting income tax, would be that everyone pays a fixed value and nothing more (notice I said value not percentage, as regardless of how you see it, that is the "fairest", everyone pays exactly the same, for arguments sake lets says £5k), but that is so unworkable and insane it's not worth mentioning. ...
This (http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/apr/25/tax-receipts-1963) suggests that tax receipts for 2012-2013 were £550.6bn. This (http://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn09.pdf) suggests that there were estimated to be 29.7 million tax payers for the year 2012-2013. Taking these figures at face value that suggests that we could do away with all other tax as long as everyone payed a flat rate of £18538 (unless I'm missing something obvious - which I probably am!).Sounds OK to me - probably not to a lot of people though!
walm said:
It's less because there is a bunch of corporation tax and business rates contributing.
Considering average take home is what? £25k?
I suspect a tax bill of even £10k would push most people WELL over the edge.
True and I suspect this is exactly the point as to why a flat tax cannot work - we NEED the wealthy to be contributing "more than their fair share", especially as the forecast tax receipts for the next few years increase pretty sharply Considering average take home is what? £25k?
I suspect a tax bill of even £10k would push most people WELL over the edge.
otolith said:
Countdown said:
otolith said:
That's lovely for those of you who have the luxury to choose which country you live in.
We all have choices/options. They may not be great ones but everybody chooses the option that provides him or her with the most benefit.Oh, but not everywhere will have you. Because lots of countries are quite fussy about who they let in.
FiF said:
Meanwhile on his regular phone in radio show thet Deputy PM one Cletus Clogg Feckwit on air had direct advice for a pensioner complaining about the proposal as he didn't have the cash to pay the tax on the house he'd lived in for decades, "Well sell your house then"
LibDims to be annihilated and Cloggy to lose his seat. Tenner posted with bookies.
How is that any different from any other tax bill that needs to be settled?LibDims to be annihilated and Cloggy to lose his seat. Tenner posted with bookies.
As to the use of the word 'pensioner' in a blatant attempt to garner sympathy for some old, poor codger - remember we're talking about £2m homes. And if he is indeed a pensioner, he's hardly likely to have that place loaded up with £1.9m of mortgage.
oyster said:
As to the use of the word 'pensioner' in a blatant attempt to garner sympathy for some old, poor codger - remember we're talking about £2m homes. And if he is indeed a pensioner, he's hardly likely to have that place loaded up with £1.9m of mortgage.
I have to admit that I too hate this emotive BS.If you live in a £2m mortgage free home as a pensioner there is no two ways about it - you are LOADED.
Remember that the average annuity is £40k.
Remember that HARDLY ANYONE pays inheritance tax and that is on an estate of >£325k i.e. LESS THAT ONE SIXTH of this chap's minimum net worth.
I admit that it can be uprooting to have to move house - certainly more uprooting than selling some shares or cashing some of your pension.
BUT DAMN! £2m!!
There are plenty of reasons why a mansion tax is bad but for a few incredibly wealthy individuals having to move house to pay it? Cry me a river, grandpa.
walm said:
I have to admit that I too hate this emotive BS.
If you live in a £2m mortgage free home as a pensioner there is no two ways about it - you are LOADED.
Remember that the average annuity is £40k.
Remember that HARDLY ANYONE pays inheritance tax and that is on an estate of >£325k i.e. LESS THAT ONE SIXTH of this chap's minimum net worth.
I admit that it can be uprooting to have to move house - certainly more uprooting than selling some shares or cashing some of your pension.
BUT DAMN! £2m!!
There are plenty of reasons why a mansion tax is bad but for a few incredibly wealthy individuals having to move house to pay it? Cry me a river, grandpa.
Why should anyone have to move house to give more money to the government to fritter away? I live in a house that's in the category you describe, I bought it out of already heavily taxed income and paid a massive amount of further tax on stamp duty too. I pay the highest amount possible in council tax and could be described a 'non user' of council services apart from having my single allowed bin collected fortnightly. I use private schools, private health etc too. So I'm hardly a burden.If you live in a £2m mortgage free home as a pensioner there is no two ways about it - you are LOADED.
Remember that the average annuity is £40k.
Remember that HARDLY ANYONE pays inheritance tax and that is on an estate of >£325k i.e. LESS THAT ONE SIXTH of this chap's minimum net worth.
I admit that it can be uprooting to have to move house - certainly more uprooting than selling some shares or cashing some of your pension.
BUT DAMN! £2m!!
There are plenty of reasons why a mansion tax is bad but for a few incredibly wealthy individuals having to move house to pay it? Cry me a river, grandpa.
The concept of increasing the levels of my already high contributions to a point where I'm forced to move house seem punitive.... My house is not a mansion either.
NDA said:
Why should anyone have to move house to give more money to the government to fritter away? I live in a house that's in the category you describe, I bought it out of already heavily taxed income and paid a massive amount of further tax on stamp duty too. I pay the highest amount possible in council tax and could be described a 'non user' of council services apart from having my single allowed bin collected fortnightly. I use private schools, private health etc too. So I'm hardly a burden.
The concept of increasing the levels of my already high contributions to a point where I'm forced to move house seem punitive.... My house is not a mansion either.
Well talking of green eyes... damn! Your garage!!The concept of increasing the levels of my already high contributions to a point where I'm forced to move house seem punitive.... My house is not a mansion either.
One minor car downsizing would cover a few years of a mansion tax I suspect!!
Of course I would rather NO ONE has to pay extra tax.
Of course I would rather the government stopped filling the pockets of work-shy baby-makers.
But right now the money has to come from somewhere.
And I firmly believe people getting upset because it is levied on the value of their house rather than their earnings - are getting stroppy over a minor detail.
And frankly don't understand the actual implications which are that VERY VERY few people would ever be FORCED to move house.
Take for example Mr NDA above. I strongly suspect that he could easily absorb say 2% per annum on every £1 above £2m in the value of his property.
That's an extra £10k on £2.5m property.
Which is LESS than raising the £150k PAYE limit from 40% to 50% if you earn £300k.
(That's £15k for those following.)
So many (already plenty wealthy) people would have been BETTER off with a mansion tax in 2009 (or whenever that 50% rate came in - I forget)!!
NDA said:
walm said:
I have to admit that I too hate this emotive BS.
If you live in a £2m mortgage free home as a pensioner there is no two ways about it - you are LOADED.
Remember that the average annuity is £40k.
Remember that HARDLY ANYONE pays inheritance tax and that is on an estate of >£325k i.e. LESS THAT ONE SIXTH of this chap's minimum net worth.
I admit that it can be uprooting to have to move house - certainly more uprooting than selling some shares or cashing some of your pension.
BUT DAMN! £2m!!
There are plenty of reasons why a mansion tax is bad but for a few incredibly wealthy individuals having to move house to pay it? Cry me a river, grandpa.
Why should anyone have to move house to give more money to the government to fritter away? I live in a house that's in the category you describe, I bought it out of already heavily taxed income and paid a massive amount of further tax on stamp duty too. I pay the highest amount possible in council tax and could be described a 'non user' of council services apart from having my single allowed bin collected fortnightly. I use private schools, private health etc too. So I'm hardly a burden.If you live in a £2m mortgage free home as a pensioner there is no two ways about it - you are LOADED.
Remember that the average annuity is £40k.
Remember that HARDLY ANYONE pays inheritance tax and that is on an estate of >£325k i.e. LESS THAT ONE SIXTH of this chap's minimum net worth.
I admit that it can be uprooting to have to move house - certainly more uprooting than selling some shares or cashing some of your pension.
BUT DAMN! £2m!!
There are plenty of reasons why a mansion tax is bad but for a few incredibly wealthy individuals having to move house to pay it? Cry me a river, grandpa.
The concept of increasing the levels of my already high contributions to a point where I'm forced to move house seem punitive.... My house is not a mansion either.
Then go on to state the whole I'm a hard working self made fellow, govt never did anything for me, all govt does is take my hard earned and give to slackers.
Now the mansion tax may be a badly though out govt policy but your stand point is frankly laughable, who do you think put in place policies that allow you as an individual to acquire so much more wealth than 99% of your fellow citizens. the tax you pay is a small price.
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