No limit on Indian immigration

[Ozzie Osmond]

Yet further evidence that Cameron is a complete idiot.

Most governments eventually reach the point where they behave with complete idiocy - usually in their second term after successful re-election. Cameron has clearly decided to short cut the process!!

[Fantic SuperT]

ralphrj said:

Where does that figure of 17% come from? I can't believe that 17% of all Indian students come to the UK to study (only 15% of Indian students even go to high school).

http://monitor.icef.com/2012/11/number-of-indian-students-heading-abroad-up-300-over-past-decade
"The UK overtook Australia in 2009 to become the second-most important destination for Indian students (after the US, the UK attracted 17% of all Indian students studying abroad in 2009)."

http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?sto...
"Despite visa restrictions the United Kingdom remains the top foreign destination for Indian students. According to data available for 2010, almost twice the number of Indian students who applied to study higher education abroad chose colleges in the UK over the United States. Latest data for entry into college for 2010 show that the UK has issued 57,500 student visas, almost double the number issued by the US (32,000)."

I'll concede that many will not be choose to study abroad, but this is clearly a means of by-passing other immigration rules if an Indian wants to take a graduate-level job in the UK. I'm guessing Cameron's mates in the CBI have asked for more cheap staff to replace their UK workers who want to be paid enough to buy a home of their own etc.

Edited by Fantic SuperT on Wednesday 20th February 13:04

Edited by Fantic SuperT on Wednesday 20th February 13:10

[greygoose]

Fantic SuperT said:

ralphrj said:

Where does that figure of 17% come from? I can't believe that 17% of all Indian students come to the UK to study (only 15% of Indian students even go to high school).

http://monitor.icef.com/2012/11/number-of-indian-students-heading-abroad-up-300-over-past-decade
"The UK overtook Australia in 2009 to become the second-most important destination for Indian students (after the US, the UK attracted 17% of all Indian students studying abroad in 2009)."

http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?sto...
"Despite visa restrictions the United Kingdom remains the top foreign destination for Indian students. According to data available for 2010, almost twice the number of Indian students who applied to study higher education abroad chose colleges in the UK over the United States. Latest data for entry into college for 2010 show that the UK has issued 57,500 student visas, almost double the number issued by the US (32,000)."

Edited by Fantic SuperT on Wednesday 20th February 13:04

It's 17% of Indian students who study abroad rather than Indian students as a whole.

[Big Fluffy One]

This is, to all intents and purposes, exporting education.

As long as they pay their money, abide by the rules when they're here and go home when they're supposed to, then what's the problem?

[ralphrj]

I think it is widely inaccurate to assume that if Indian graduate levels were to increase to a comparable amount to the UK that the same percentage would then want to come to the UK to study.

One of the major reasons that Indian students study abroad is the poor quality of education available in India. If the Indian education system were to improve to such a degree that the 7% that currently graduate high school increased to 50% then it is unlikely that so many would feel the need to study abroad to further their education.

[jonny70]

Pickled Piper said:

My point exactly.

Can't see why it is an issue. Wealthy students coming here and pumping money into our Universites. Some of whom will then remain here in graduate level jobs and pay UK tax. Can't say it's high on my list of worries. I am more concerned about people coming here specifically to screw the benefits system.

pp

Yes but most people who are fools just either assume the whole of India will come here or somehow will be drain on our services.They basically can only come here if they are wealthy and tell me how do you make a bogus university?

If you read the comments on the article for this on the daily mails website you will realize how stupid peole actually are and how brain dead so much of the electorate are!

[sugerbear]

Why would an indian student want to study in the UK. They can easily get a much cheaper education from one of the many *cough* universities *cough* in India, then they can join any IT organisation they like and come on over on a visa.

Job done.

[Munter]

OMG no. We might be about to have an influx of people paying for an education, and then getting jobs and paying income tax. What the hell is he thinking. Next thing you know he'll be suggesting we try and increase our exports to Asia using their language skills.

Madness. Utter madness.

[Haggleburyfinius]

I see these third world rich kids studying here as an opportunity to exert some soft power as well as the economic benefits.

[Haggleburyfinius]

FiF said:

It's the same in Sheffield, and whilst the "HK" lot seem reasonably pleasant the mainland ones are just so unbelievably arrogant and ignorant it's untrue.

Plus the standard of their Engrish ranguage skirrs are such that you know they have no clue what is being said in lectures, have no clue what is being discussed in seminars, contribute nothing to the debate, and I'm pretty sure don't even write their own essays but pay post grads and others to do it for them.

Above based on observation, if considered racist, then face the truth and deal with it.

agreed on all points.

The Chinese in Birmingham look at you like you're mad if you say hello or hold a door open or any normal British customs. They also do this weird thing where when they think the conversation is over they just turn and leave without a word or glance. They really are like aliens!

A friend of mine co-owns an agency with a Chinese girl that provides "visa help" to Chinese students; they basically pretend it's really hard then fill in the forms and take them to the visa office to answer any questions on their behalf. Whilst there they have to show financial means...my mate says 5 figure sums £ per month are not unusual by any means.

There was a penthouse apartment in the city centre here that nobody could let for love nor money till a chinese student moved in...when it's too expensive for the local football crew and a student moves in you know times are a changing! In my building there were 2 kids who raced around the streets in matching Maser Granstourismos (and all the rest of the cars); they look about 12!

And this is just in Birmingham!

What must be even stranger than all this is for third or fourth generation Chinese-British; to suddenly find people start saying hello in Chinese in shops and expecting you to behave like the visitors when you don't even speak the language etc.

I dread to think the impact on the economy and retail in particular if the Chinese money dried up!

[Caulkhead]

Pothole said:

Caulkhead said:

I'm surprised how many people on here can't understand the difference between paying to attend a university course in the UK and being an immigrant.

Why?

Possibly because I tend to see PH as a relatively educated audience. . . . . .

[Ozzie Osmond]

What's pathetic is that UK, with 60 million inhabitants, either
a) Can't find enough locals to fill its universities, or
b) Isn't willing to educate its own population.

East Europeans are over here working the jobs.
Indians and Chinese are over here getting educated.
Meanwhile UK locals are incrteasingly slouched on benefits and staring at Geordie Shore.

[Munter]

Ozzie Osmond said:

What's pathetic is that UK, with 60 million inhabitants, either
a) Can't find enough locals to fill its universities, or
b) Isn't willing to educate its own population.

East Europeans are over here working the jobs.
Indians and Chinese are over here getting educated.
Meanwhile UK locals are incrteasingly slouched on benefits and staring at Geordie Shore.

We can't afford a or b apparently. But by importing a bit of cash we can do more of it.

But I do agree it's irritating that (perfectly legal), immigrants get jobs because they can actually be bothered to turn up and do the job to a reasonable standard where natives can't.

[davepoth]

Ozzie Osmond said:

What's pathetic is that UK, with 60 million inhabitants, either
a) Can't find enough locals to fill its universities, or
b) Isn't willing to educate its own population.

The universities make extra room for immigrants. Charging £25,000 a year to foreign students means that we don't have to charge that much to domestic students; the foreign students are effectively paying a substantial proportion of the fees of UK students. We could chuck them all out and raise the UK student fees to £25,000pa, up front, if you like?

[fido]

davepoth said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

What's pathetic is that UK, with 60 million inhabitants, either
a) Can't find enough locals to fill its universities, or
b) Isn't willing to educate its own population.

The universities make extra room for immigrants. Charging £25,000 a year to foreign students means that we don't have to charge that much to domestic students; the foreign students are effectively paying a substantial proportion of the fees of UK students. We could chuck them all out and raise the UK student fees to £25,000pa, up front, if you like?

Exactly. Even the former polytechnics are highly regarded outside the UK - it's a successful export - not to mention the associated revenues associated with students. As for 'unwilling to educate its own population' - even with tuition fees it's still damn good value if you want to do something with the degree, even if in many cases it's just an excuse to piss about for 3 years.

Edited by fido on Wednesday 20th February 19:32

[Pothole]

Caulkhead said:

Pothole said:

Caulkhead said:

I'm surprised how many people on here can't understand the difference between paying to attend a university course in the UK and being an immigrant.

Why?

Possibly because I tend to see PH as a relatively educated audience. . . . . .

Ah, there's yer trouble.

[FiF]

fido said:

even with tuition fees it's still damn good value if you want to do something with the degree, even if in many cases it's just an excuse to piss about for 3 years.

I've observed that the foreign students with good or even half decent* command of English actually work quite hard and it's more like the UK students who piss about for 3 years. That's a very broad brush generalisation admittedly.

* by half decent I mean one can hold a reasonably detailed technical discussion with them in seminar, tutorial or even in leisure activities, even though at times their grasp of colloquialisms and funny interjections into the conversation that locals "just instantly get" can result in some puzzled expressions. Explaining what a particular new to them comment means, where it derives from and why everyone laughed at it, not them, can waste many a half hour.

[anonymous-user]

Has any one ever seen the level of English required to be a student, it is very high, the problem is that uni's appear to waive it when the cheque book comes out.
Vaving worked most of my life overseas, and 20 years of that in Asia I can ssure you there has been huge benifits from overseas students in terms of how qualified people look at UK companies when it comes to bidding and prequalifying for work, my concern is that this benifit will not accrue in the future from current Chinese students as the marlket in China is closed.

[anonymous-user]

There are, however, a few universities in China with links with UK universities, and which teach their courses in English.

Someone above made disparaging remarks about Indian universities, which show some ignorance, in particular of the technology colleges in india. Their graduates often go on to Caltech and MIT (Raj in "The Big Bang Theory" is based on real archetypes), or are snapped up by tech employers worldwide.

Based on my experience of dealing with lawsuits involving India, the country does need better law schools and better courts, as the standards of the local lawyers and Judges are very variable. I am talking here about law as a service industry for business. If I had a bundle of cash or financial backers, and wanted to get rich quickish, I would set up an elitist law school in Delhi to train commercial lawyers to UK and US standards.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 21st February 07:39

[Guybrush]

There are simply too many very well qualified people chasing too few jobs in this country already. We don't need any more. All it will do is put up the benefits bill.