Trois heures par jour ? Tous les jours? Va te faire...!

[Newc]

Well the Telegraph is on a bit of a roll this week, with today's gem.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis...

The boss of US tyremaker Titan has mocked French workers for putting in only "three hours" a day and said his company would be "stupid" to take over an ailing French factory.

Maurice Taylor, chief executive of Titan, berated the French work ethic in response to a request for the US company to consider investing in a loss-making Goodyear plant in Amiens, northern France.

"They get one hour for breaks and lunch, talk for three and work for three. I told this to the French union workers to their faces. They told me that's the French way!"

"Titan is going to buy a Chinese tyre company or an Indian one, pay less than one euro per hour wage and ship all the tyres France needs. You can keep the so-called workers. Titan has no interest in the Amiens North factory," he wrote.

[Caulkhead]

The figures tend to agree with him:

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LEVEL

[Bluebarge]

Caulkhead said:

The figures tend to agree with him:

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LEVEL

But also put us way behind the French.

Not that GDP figures are a v.reliable indicator of anything.

[Digga]

The issues raised by the Titan CEO are, in many ways, just the tip of the iceberg for France. There are so, so many ways that the economy is hindered that it is hard to see how they can reform fast enough to curb what now looks to be a very swift, steep exit from the 'top table'.

Their politicians and unions are fighting battles long lost and have not even the awareness, let alone preparedness, to begin to fight the battles that would make them globally-aligned.

ETA I have nothing 'against' the French - love the place - but have various sources (below) which all paint the same picture.

1. French friends who either live & work in the UK or internationally
2. French-based English ex-pat customers
3. French-based French customers
4. Mulitnational corporations who have/had operations in France

Edited by Digga on Wednesday 20th February 12:27

[Mr_B]

Going on what Maurice Taylor says, there would be little difference between Britain and France. If you can get away with paying that little in China and India and shipping to Europe still equals a fat profit, I doubt he is thinking of any place apart from anywhere cheap labour, no union nonsense and no raft of legislation.

[mattnunn]

C'est la vie.

[ralphrj]

Bluebarge said:

Caulkhead said:

The figures tend to agree with him:

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LEVEL

But also put us way behind the French.

I think Caulkhead may have been referring to the 'Average hours worked per person' which was 1,476 per annum for France (vs 1,625 p.a. for the UK, 1,657 p.a. average for the G7, 1,704 p.a. for the US etc).

[bigandclever]

If you read the full letter, he's not so much having a go at the workers as the French unions and the French government. And he finishes off with a dig at the US Government too.

[turbobloke]

ralphrj said:

Bluebarge said:

Caulkhead said:

The figures tend to agree with him:

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LEVEL

But also put us way behind the French.

I think Caulkhead may have been referring to the 'Average hours worked per person' which was 1,476 per annum for France (vs 1,625 p.a. for the UK, 1,657 p.a. average for the G7, 1,704 p.a. for the US etc).

1,625 for the UK, jeez. That will include the public sector though as it says 'total employment'. A lot of private sector people could cut back and still walk it.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Sounds as though the French would be too hard-working for a job in UK town halls!

[turbobloke]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Sounds as though the French would be too hard-working for a job in UK town halls!

OOI the expectation was between 8 hours x 220 days which is 1760 hours and x 230 days which is 1840 hours.

However I hadn't factored in SDA, the sickie day allowance in the public sector.

[hornetrider]

Having worked over in France with French colleagues I can sympathise with the view. One hour lunch breaks for food and wine were the norm - followed by a further half hour spent smoking some Galloises to let lunch go down.

[Bluebarge]

ralphrj said:

I think Caulkhead may have been referring to the 'Average hours worked per person' which was 1,476 per annum for France (vs 1,625 p.a. for the UK, 1,657 p.a. average for the G7, 1,704 p.a. for the US etc).

Ah OK, I was looking at GDP per hours worked, on which measure the French are way ahead of us. So does that mean they work smarter?

[Digga]

Bluebarge said:

Ah OK, I was looking at GDP per hours worked, on which measure the French are way ahead of us. So does that mean they work smarter?

GDP includes PS spending. They're good at that.

[Mr Snap]

Can't remember where I saw it but there were some statistics suggesting that, although the french work fewer hours, the hours they actually work are more productive...

When I worked there back in the 70's, they still had two hour lunch breaks - the working day was bleeding interminable... Now, even in the south, it's a bit more in line with the way we do things. What gets my goat now is how they still cling to half day closures and Sunday/Monday closing etc etc. In that way, it's still like stepping back to the 60's.

[turbobloke]

Mr Snap said:

Can't remember where I saw it but there were some statistics suggesting that, although the french work fewer hours, the hours they actually work are more productive...

Yes I remember reading similar content, but also recall that those articles used GDP within the measure, and as such, like Digga has just pointed out, the calculation includes public sector spending which the French are indeed very good at. This use of GDP isn't particularly apt. In addition, in a measure of GDP per hours worked, this indicator automatically rises as hours worked falls, including when GDP remains the same. So that's not helpful either...

[ralphrj]

Bluebarge said:

Ah OK, I was looking at GDP per hours worked, on which measure the French are way ahead of us. So does that mean they work smarter?

Possibly, if you can produce as much or more than another country by working less hours then that might be proof that you are working smarter.

Alternatively, you may receive large amounts of money in the form of agricultural subsidies. These subsidies may be paid irrespective of you actually growing or rearing anything. In which case your GDP is significantly increased without working a single hour.

[Motorrad]

He forgot to add that if the 3 hrs were after lunch they'd be drunk.

Also that they'd require a month off every year plus more bank holidays than the UK.

Not forgetting 12 RTT days as payback for 37.5 hr weeks

France is a waste of space investment wise.

Great place to have worked over the last 30 or 40 yrs though. Retire in your early 50s on a final salary pension having done fk all work in the meantime.

Happy, happy days.

[Digga]

Seems the French socialist minister for "industrial recovery" (my quotation marks - the irony), Arnaud Montebourg doesn't know good advice when he sees it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21530619

[Le TVR]

Hmmm.....

Motorrad said:

He forgot to add that if the 3 hrs were after lunch they'd be drunk.

And instantly fired.

Motorrad said:

Also that they'd require a month off every year plus more bank holidays than the UK.

25 days per year and less bank holidays. If our bank holiday falls on a weekend, thats tough. If yours falls on a weekend, you get the monday following.

Motorrad said:

Not forgetting 12 RTT days as payback for 37.5 hr weeks

And less money. If you want the same salary as before then 0 RTT days and 40 hours per week.

Motorrad said:

France is a waste of space investment wise.

Yep, can't argue with that one now.

Motorrad said:

Great place to have worked over the last 30 or 40 yrs though. Retire in your early 50s on a final salary pension having done fk all work in the meantime.

Not since a long time. I will be 67 before that happens and it won't be 'final salary'.