George Osbourne is dillusional

[anonymous-user]

Gaspode said:

We have treaty commitments to the EU, stopping paying them would breach those commitments, and I would think it inevitable that the rest of the EU would take us to court over it. If we were to exit the EU, there would be long and expensive negotiations to go through, there's no way we could simply stop paying.

Which court exactly? And how do you think they would enforce any judgement? The EU could stop trading with us, but the idea of them suing us for leaving is ludicrous.

[stitched]

Gaspode said:

Pesty said:

And what would they do if we didn't turn up?

The EU would stop doing business with us, the IMF would withdraw support, the international money markets would stop doing business with us. The government would be bankrupt within months, there would be widespread civil disorder that the police and army would be unable to control.

(well, maybe not, but it's at least as plausible as the idea of simply stopping honouring our international treaty commitments because we're a bit hard up.)

Which is pretty much what most on here said would happen to Iceland. It didn't.
If we pulled out of Europe politically do you really think they would raise trade barriers and weaken their own economies.
The pound is a little bit more stable than the Euro at the minute.
There might be a few extra payments we would need to honour but these could be staged out and we would no longer have an extra echelon of ubcontrollable corrupt politicians to pay.
I am all in favour of close political co-operation with our neighbours but when they try to tell us how to behave in our own home then it really is too much.
As far as I can see it's a case of experiment failed, time for a staged exit.

[Gary11]

He and most politicians need to accept familys are at breaking point and have been for five years,how can year on year rising living costs do anything other than add fuel to the fire,something actualy needs to go down in price and things never ever do,I am aware motgages are cheap but the majority are in fixed rate deals or kidology intrest only.There is a further issue here later down the line,so I stick by the title he is dillusional!

[London424]

Gary11 said:

He and most politicians need to accept familys are at breaking point and have been for five years,how can year on year rising living costs do anything other than add fuel to the fire,something actualy needs to go down in price and things never ever do,I am aware motgages are cheap but the majority are in fixed rate deals or kidology intrest only.There is a further issue here later down the line,so I stick by the title he is dillusional!

So what's your suggestion to fix things?

[Tartan Pixie]

Gary11 said:

He and most politicians need to accept familys are at breaking point and have been for five years,how can year on year rising living costs do anything other than add fuel to the fire,something actualy needs to go down in price and things never ever do,I am aware motgages are cheap but the majority are in fixed rate deals or kidology intrest only.There is a further issue here later down the line,so I stick by the title he is dillusional!

Put in the simplest terms by representing global resources as apples:
There used to be ten apples in a bowl, the rest of the world consumed 7 apples and 3 apples were left for the UK to eat.
There's now eleven apples in a bowl, however the rest of the world consumes 9 apples so only 2 apples are left for the UK to eat.

Given the above how exactly do you propose GO achieves the bolded bit in the quote? Send gunboats to China and get them all hooked on opium? Put in a call to the Raj and get those pesky Indians to stop competing against our value added industries? Invade a couple of resource rich middle east nations to make sure the oil keeps flowing....oh no wait, we tried that one.

Like it or not the relative peace that globalization has brought, combined with the dropping of trade barriers through the WTO etc means that we must compete directly with people in China who will work every hour they can in a sweatshop to keep their family fed. On a global level living standards are evening out, which means the poor get richer and the rich get poorer.

Given that this is a function of globalization I'm all ears to know how you think the relatively insignificant Osbourne can do something about it.

[HundredthIdiot]

Gary11 said:

Geroge Osbourne is dillusional

Congratulations on correctly spelling "is".

[Gary11]

Tartan Pixie said:

Put in the simplest terms by representing global resources as apples:
There used to be ten apples in a bowl, the rest of the world consumed 7 apples and 3 apples were left for the UK to eat.
There's now eleven apples in a bowl, however the rest of the world consumes 9 apples so only 2 apples are left for the UK to eat.

Given the above how exactly do you propose GO achieves the bolded bit in the quote? Send gunboats to China and get them all hooked on opium? Put in a call to the Raj and get those pesky Indians to stop competing against our value added industries? Invade a couple of resource rich middle east nations to make sure the oil keeps flowing....oh no wait, we tried that one.

Like it or not the relative peace that globalization has brought, combined with the dropping of trade barriers through the WTO etc means that we must compete directly with people in China who will work every hour they can in a sweatshop to keep their family fed. On a global level living standards are evening out, which means the poor get richer and the rich get poorer.

Given that this is a function of globalization I'm all ears to know how you think the relatively insignificant Osbourne can do something about it.

TP
Im sure we could cut immigration and assosiated welfare payments,sack a few thousand civil servants,cut aid to almost everyone,cancel the order for 45 fighter aircraft,cut our contributions to the euro sack all the MEPS,inc Blair,Kinnocks and co,reasemble the commonwealth and float that as our Eurozone,we could also scrap quite a bit of H&S regulation and dissolve a few thousand quangos,reduce vat a bit,knock a bit off fuel,start charging the BMW,AUDI A1,type cars a bit of duty as they really shouldnt be FREE should they,double duty on cigarettes,but hey ho but Im no politician,sorry I couldnt think of more I only had 5 minutes.
G
ETA Most importantly scrap everything eco enviromently friendly,inc carbon footprint credits and DPF filters and eco 12345 and 6 diesel engine legislation,as England is cleaner than ever and we are all fine,and all windfarms as they are a waste of money and have diesel engines in them anyway.
Oh and buy all our utility companys back from the French and Germans.

Edited by Gary11 on Sunday 24th February 16:03

Edited by Gary11 on Sunday 24th February 16:06

[Gary11]

HundredthIdiot said:

Congratulations on correctly spelling "is".

Why thank you kind sir.

[toppstuff]

The single most depressing aspect of this is that the only apparent alternative is Ed Balls.

I surprise even myself when I say this, but I find Ed Balls even more repellent than Osborne.

It's bloody depressing.

[JensenA]

Gary11 said:

TP
Im sure we could cut immigration and assosiated welfare payments,sack a few thousand civil servants,cut aid to almost everyone,cancel the order for 45 fighter aircraft,cut our contributions to the euro sack all the MEPS,inc Blair,Kinnocks and co,reasemble the commonwealth and float that as our Eurozone,we could also scrap quite a bit of H&S regulation and dissolve a few thousand quangos,reduce vat a bit,knock a bit off fuel,start charging the BMW,AUDI A1,type cars a bit of duty as they really shouldnt be FREE should they,double duty on cigarettes,but hey ho but Im no politician,sorry I couldnt think of more I only had 5 minutes.
G
ETA Most importantly scrap everything eco enviromently friendly,inc carbon footprint credits and DPF filters and eco 12345 and 6 diesel engine legislation,as England is cleaner than ever and we are all fine,and all windfarms as they are a waste of money and have diesel engines in them anyway.
Oh and buy all our utility companys back from the French and Germans.

And you reckon George Osborne is dilusional??

There are 'only' about 1200 quangos in total - The Tory's have already got rid of about 100.
They have already cut 270,000 public sector jobs.
How much would it cost to buy the utilities back from the French and Germans?

I think he's doing the best he can under the circumstances.

Edited by JensenA on Sunday 24th February 23:56

[Welshbeef]

toppstuff said:

The single most depressing aspect of this is that the only apparent alternative is Ed Balls.

I surprise even myself when I say this, but I find Ed Balls even more repellent than Osborne.

It's bloody depressing.

Sadly the reality is we have as a nation and in general as individuals vastly overspent we have to pay it back. We have had Jam today or in the past rather than Jam tomorrow as such we have little option and frankly the next two decades (possibly more) could well be very similar if not harsher than te last 5 years.

Given that regardless of who is in power it makes little difference. What Labour chant is tinkering at the edges ditto Tory/lib dem. labour will not be able to borrow more they know this.

What needs to happen is a party needs to stand up and be very clear with the population - heck all the top three parties should stand together and make it clears
1. NHS cannot continue as is if it does other deparents will have to be slashed or income tax goes up
2. Public sector pensions have to change to x
3. Welfare state has to change to be cut to x
4. Within welfare state - stare pension has to be cut
5 we cannot leave the EU else were fubared we lose trading partners we drop out of the way fall by the wayside
6 we need to start to make stuff as what we currently do is totally transferable highly dangerous game
7 we have no choice but to hold interest rates low for decades to come else millions of families will lose their homes default causing a house market crash. This we cannot afford holding prices steady ish for long periods of time will errode the values in a managed way far preferred.

Lastly we have had all the good times our quality of life from a consumer perspective is going to decrease year on year ongoing. Get used to it.


Gulp try selling that - you cannot.

[davepoth]

Of those, "we need to make stuff" is sellable to the public. How to do it without spending any money is the question.

[vodkalolly]

davepoth said:

Of those, "we need to make stuff" is sellable to the public. How to do it without spending any money is the question.

Cut Corporation tax for manufacturers to zero raise taxes for supermarkets to compensate. Scrap green taxes for making things and tax plastic bags.

[Digga]

vodkalolly said:

Cut Corporation tax for manufacturers to zero raise taxes for supermarkets to compensate. Scrap green taxes for making things and tax plastic bags.

Let's just keep it simple eh? Cut bureaucracy at the same time.

[Gary11]

I only started this thread after watching GO saying we were lucky that fuel wasnt more expensive and we have his administration to thank,it just struck a chord after filling a small green fuel can with £7.00 of fuel how ridiculous the price of the stuff is and how we have just accepted the year on year increases in this and all utilites and domestic bills.
My quandry simply is that these levels of expense are now beyond many families, often we see fuel and shopping going on credit cards this in itself slowly inflating another debt bubble,borrowing for daily essentials is wrong but its the world we live in,I only ever vote tory could never ever vote for the wretched labour party and have looked with perhaps a bit of optimism towards Farrage as a way forward, but sadly feel Cameron has in a master stroke by agreeing to a referendum made UKIP null and void, perhaps Nige could come accross now and kick out the slimy self effacing lib dems.
We need change this cant go on people are skint and worried and arent spending.They can massage the dole queues all they want the high street tells the story.
Thanks for all the replies!
G

[HundredthIdiot]

vodkalolly said:

Cut Corporation tax for manufacturers to zero raise taxes for supermarkets to compensate.

That is predicated on the assumption that the government knows better than the markets where capital should be allocated.

Subsidies are a slippery slope.

Also, comparative advantage.

[Andy Zarse]

muppets_mate said:

elster said:

If you think MPs are on a gravy train, you clearly haven't met most of them.

Really?

I thought the view was that many MPs were self-serving hypocrites with their nose in the trough?

Edited by muppets_mate on Sunday 24th February 10:08

Twenty years service as a backbencher gets you a pension pot worth £1.2 million in today's money.

[Gary11]

Why are we then unable to hang on to for example Jaguar Land Rover? So we sell them off to the indians who make it work,what is it? Still union influence? Poor productivity? High wages and iirc out of largely the same factories.
This selling off of the family silver (and gold) is so fustrating good companies good products gone NEVER to return.

[Super Slo Mo]

Gary11 said:

Why are we then unable to hang on to for example Jaguar Land Rover? So we sell them off to the indians who make it work,what is it? Still union influence? Poor productivity? High wages and iirc out of largely the same factories.
This selling off of the family silver (and gold) is so fustrating good companies good products gone NEVER to return.

'We' didn't sell them to the Indians. They haven't been in British hands for a long, long time.

Simple fact is, under the current ownership, the factories remain here in the UK, providing much needed jobs and associated resources to the local communities (parts suppliers, catering, etc). If they'd stayed in British hands, chances are neither company would exist today.

The fact that a small amount of the turnover (profit) goes to the parent company is worth it, IMO, due to the huge value to the economy of keeping both Jaguar and LR in the UK.

[Digga]

Jaguar-land_Rover never existed as an entitity before Ford rescued Jaguar for near certain demise and then - in possibly the most logical thing they ever did during their stewardship of these marques - lumped them together in a premium brand cluster.

Ford went on to the same micro-managed 'success' with these brands as they did with Jackie Stewarts F1 team.

We're lucky that Tata had the cash and the vision to buy them and run them (from what I've seen and heard) properly. As we are also lucky that Nissan, Toyota and Honda still consider the UK a viable car-making nation. I say lucky - we've made a lot of our luck, through union reforms and through (mostly) sensible government attitudes to these outside investors.