Windfarms - the end is nigh?

[johnfm]

Mojocvh said:

AnonSpoilsport said:

wemorgan said:

OK - so few if anyone here wants wind turbines. Most people here want cheap (I think that's fair to assume). What's cheap? Imported gas? Nuclear? Shale? Each of them have serious question marks around them too - it's not just renewable that come with holes in the arguments. If decisions were easy they would have been made by now. Energy needs long term planning. 5 year Government terms aren't suited to long term plans. Many voters don't vote thinking so far ahead. Those are the problems we face. IMHO

What exactly would they be, the 'serious questions' about (against) shale gas?

You are an engineer iirc, in what field? Do you work on/for wind turbines at all?

"What exactly would they be, the 'serious questions' about (against) shale gas?"

Loads, even on threads in this here section in the last couple of days, pick it up at the back please....

Shale gas in the UK will be hugely disappointing to those hoping for some US-style drop in gas prices.

The US shale gas industry is not in any way comparable to the UK/Europe industry.

[AnonSpoilsport]

Mojocvh said:

"What exactly would they be, the 'serious questions' about (against) shale gas?"

Loads, even on threads in this here section in the last couple of days, pick it up at the back please....

By 'serious' I thought he meant genuine/warranted.

So, as you were.


Still managing to lay off the Nein Nuke Danke nonsense I see. You'll be telling us you quit next.

[ikarl]

elster said:

ikarl said:

elster said:

So just for the infrastructure we are looking at an extra £1871.10 per household per year (20 million households) or conservatively £1247.40 (15 years).

That is a hell of an extra energy bill.

Edited by elster on Monday 25th February 11:05

The part above I've highlighted bold - that doesn't even scratch the surface of it!

That is just for the turbines, it does not include the maintenance, grants, etc.

Sorry, just got back to this as I forgot about this yesterday. One of the huge costs that normally gets missed is the connection to the grid itself. The £cost for this runs into the 10's of millions (transformers, cable, towers, switchgear, batteries, pilot wires etc) and the subsequent reinforcement to the surrounding grid.

What I mean by that is, if a windfarm is connected to the grid the surrounding cable/substations need to be upgraded (refurb or replacement) to ensure that there are no weaknesses on the line (grid).

The cost of all that is generally missed when the cost is quoted for wind turbine / wind farm installs

[Mojocvh]

AnonSpoilsport said:

Mojocvh said:

"What exactly would they be, the 'serious questions' about (against) shale gas?"

Loads, even on threads in this here section in the last couple of days, pick it up at the back please....

By 'serious' I thought he meant genuine/warranted.

So, as you were.


Still managing to lay off the Nein Nuke Danke nonsense I see. You'll be telling us you quit next.

More to the point, why don't you list up your deleted/blocked usernames?

[Oakey]

Study suggests real-world generating capacity of wind farms at large scales has been overestimated:


http://phys.org/news/2013-02-real-world-capacity-f...

[PRTVR]

Oakey said:

Study suggests real-world generating capacity of wind farms at large scales has been overestimated:


http://phys.org/news/2013-02-real-world-capacity-f...

Interesting,
they agree with my theory that windmills lead to changes in the weather, the weather has been colder since they started building them.


If we were to cover the entire Earth with wind farms, he notes, "the system could potentially generate enormous amounts of power, well in excess of 100 terawatts, but at that point my guess, based on our climate modeling, is that the effect of that on global winds, and therefore on climate, would be severe—perhaps bigger than the impact of doubling CO2."

[AnonSpoilsport]

Mojocvh said:

AnonSpoilsport said:

Mojocvh said:

"What exactly would they be, the 'serious questions' about (against) shale gas?"

Loads, even on threads in this here section in the last couple of days, pick it up at the back please....

By 'serious' I thought he meant genuine/warranted.

So, as you were.


Still managing to lay off the Nein Nuke Danke nonsense I see. You'll be telling us you quit next.

More to the point, why don't you list up your deleted/blocked usernames?

More to the point? Really. You are a complete wally aren't you!

[s2art]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Not true, the developer takes this on board.

AS above. The "Fuel" costs for the different power generation sources ?

Is the Gas / Coal free issue to Power stations? I missed that bit.

Why does that matter? Its the cost to the consumer that counts, and that appears to be approximately four times more for wind than gas or coal. To put it another way, when everything is factored in, including the interest on the money required for investment, wind just doesnt get close.

[powerstroke]

johnfm said:

Shale gas in the UK will be hugely disappointing to those hoping for some US-style drop in gas prices.

The US shale gas industry is not in any way comparable to the UK/Europe industry.

How do you know??? My guess is it wont cost the consumer a fraction of what has been wasted on wind subsidy farming...

[MartG]

In The Reg today http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/26/oh_no_its_...

Essentially some US scientists saying what anyone who can add has known for a long time - no way can wind power supply a reasonable percentage of our energy needs

Edited by MartG on Wednesday 27th February 08:54

[jshell]

johnfm said:

Shale gas in the UK will be hugely disappointing to those hoping for some US-style drop in gas prices.

Really? Source please. We're hearing that it is far bigger and with more potential than anyone anticipated.

[MartG]

jshell said:

Really? Source please. We're hearing that it is far bigger and with more potential to be taxed than anyone anticipated.

EFA