Panorama - Afghanistan
Discussion
Victor McDade said:
Unbelievable stuff.
If it wasn't so tragic this would make a great sitcom.
It's like bloody clown school. If it wasn't so tragic this would make a great sitcom.
Except for the abuse, kidnapping, murder etc. As you say, unbelievable.
And our leaders have the gall (or dumbness) to claim we are training them up to take over and make a fist of it. Like they will eer be able to organise well enough to run anything other than a totally corrupt dysfunctional mess of a country. My money is on the Taliban being back in full control in less than 5 years.
Thousands dead, for what?
Edited by AnonSpoilsport on Monday 25th February 21:01
AnonSpoilsport said:
Victor McDade said:
Unbelievable stuff.
If it wasn't so tragic this would make a great sitcom.
It's like bloody clown school. If it wasn't so tragic this would make a great sitcom.
Except for the abuse, kidnapping, murder etc. As you say, unbelievable.
And out leaders have to gall (or dumbness) to claim we are training them up to take over and make a fist of it. Like they will eer be able to organise well enough to run anything other than a totally corrupt dysfunctional mess of a country. My money is on the Taliban being back in full control in less than 5 years.
Thousands dead, for what?
Even if - emphasis on the if - there was a justification or need to go in and get rid of AQ and its Taliban hosts, unlike Iraq which was just criminal madness - it should have been done properly, ridding them of much of their capacity to do much beyond the border and then get the F out.
Before getting embroiled in a long term, doomed to failure, 'mission' to try to turn a backward, pre-medieval, peasant culture hell hole into a functioning modern state. No chance. Especially not with a corrupt leader in charge of supposedly ridding the country of the corruption he presides over on a far grander scale.
I'm depressed enough now but if my kids had been sent there and been killed or maimed for this fiasco I'd be raving.
Before getting embroiled in a long term, doomed to failure, 'mission' to try to turn a backward, pre-medieval, peasant culture hell hole into a functioning modern state. No chance. Especially not with a corrupt leader in charge of supposedly ridding the country of the corruption he presides over on a far grander scale.
I'm depressed enough now but if my kids had been sent there and been killed or maimed for this fiasco I'd be raving.
CoolHands said:
Sickening, was my thought too.
Also the Americans and that captain? (forget his name / title sorry) just went up in my estimation 1000% Dealing with those people's mentality is just terrible.
I heard the radio trail to this on R4 this morning and the journalist reckoned the Major was fighting back tears at times trying to describe and come to terms with some of the things he's seen and has to deal with. Imagine having to deal with that sickening scumbag police chief and having to sit on your hands. Or that kidnapping local 'politician'. I'd want to shoot the bAlso the Americans and that captain? (forget his name / title sorry) just went up in my estimation 1000% Dealing with those people's mentality is just terrible.
ds on the spot.Vieste said:
Missed this last night 
will it be on iplayer?
Yes. will it be on iplayer?http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01qxwl3/Pano...
The worrying thing is that the 'troop withdrawal' isn't really a full withdrawal. We'll still be keeping a few hundred special forces and training officers there.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/20/specia...
Whilst the Americans are set to have around 10,000 troops stay back and be there for the long term.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afg...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/22/us-tro...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/20/specia...
Whilst the Americans are set to have around 10,000 troops stay back and be there for the long term.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afg...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/22/us-tro...
Didn't exactly paint the Afgahn Police in a good light.
US Marine ' your police officers are sexually abusing kids '
Afghan Police Chief ' yeah I know, but the kids like to go there, so...'
US Marine ' but this has to stop, this is not right, we have to get them out of there and back to their parents. Will you help us do this'
Afghan Police ' sure, quite agree, lets do this.
Couple of hours later Afghan Police cancels operation to remove the kids.
US Marine ' your police officers are sexually abusing kids '
Afghan Police Chief ' yeah I know, but the kids like to go there, so...'
US Marine ' but this has to stop, this is not right, we have to get them out of there and back to their parents. Will you help us do this'
Afghan Police ' sure, quite agree, lets do this.
Couple of hours later Afghan Police cancels operation to remove the kids.
Got this recorded to watch later. Was it a balanced view or not? Patrick Hennesey's 'Fighting with Afghans' was an interesting read for me dealing with some of the best and the worst experiences with the ANSF.
From his book, I'd assumed the ANA were starting to get sorted out, maybe the ANP is another kettle of fish.
From his book, I'd assumed the ANA were starting to get sorted out, maybe the ANP is another kettle of fish.
Victor McDade said:
If what we're seeing is a true representation of the Afghan police and Army then it won't take long before the Taliban regain power after the coalition leave. And then we'll be back to square one.
wrong... we will be in a far worse situation than we were previously, how many more extremists have been created by the war?Jasandjules said:
AnonSpoilsport said:
Thousands dead, for what?
Why money of course, same as always.You can't just suddenly build a nation, that takes generations. The Taliban can just sit back and crack open a beer (possibly not) and wait for the foreigners to leave.
shouldbworking said:
Got this recorded to watch later. Was it a balanced view or not? Patrick Hennesey's 'Fighting with Afghans' was an interesting read for me dealing with some of the best and the worst experiences with the ANSF.
From his book, I'd assumed the ANA were starting to get sorted out, maybe the ANP is another kettle of fish.
ANA are much better paid, hence a theoretically higher calibre of candidate. ANP are paid peanuts in comparison and face as much (if not more) risk. ANP are thoroughly corrupt. Both ANP and ANA have been infiltrated by Taliban sympathisers.From his book, I'd assumed the ANA were starting to get sorted out, maybe the ANP is another kettle of fish.
AnonSpoilsport said:
My money is on the Taliban being back in full control in less than 5 years.
Five years? I'll give it five WEEKS!I cannot understand the need to foist "democracy" on states such as Afghanistan; they don't work like that.
And why do we continue to treat Pakistan with such kid gloves (because this country is heaving with them?) when it is evident that they knowing aid and harbour AQ/Taliban and train up young men from UK northern towns to be terrorists? Utter pariah state.
Dog Star said:
Five years? I'll give it five WEEKS!
I cannot understand the need to foist "democracy" on states such as Afghanistan; they don't work like that.
And why do we continue to treat Pakistan with such kid gloves(because this country is heaving with them?)(because they have nukes) when it is evident that they knowing aid and harbour AQ/Taliban and train up young men from UK northern towns to be terrorists? Utter pariah state.
fixedI cannot understand the need to foist "democracy" on states such as Afghanistan; they don't work like that.
And why do we continue to treat Pakistan with such kid gloves
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