North Korea - how serious should we take them?

[WestyCarl]

Is Kim Jong "pie boy" being used as the world's bogey man now Saddam and Gadaffi have gone?
He's certainly an odious dictator, but is he such a threat to the world? Apart from crazy statements he's done nothing (unlike the two previous mentioned dictators)
Yeah, he may be trying to make some nukes, but so was Iran and the world (USA) solved that in a much less aggressive way.
Obviously he needs to be taken out if the opportunity arises, but I can't help but feel he's a pretty useful world bogeyman for Trump at the moment........

[skyrover]

WestyCarl said:

Is Kim Jong "pie boy" being used as the world's bogey man now Saddam and Gadaffi have gone?
He's certainly an odious dictator, but is he such a threat to the world? Apart from crazy statements he's done nothing (unlike the two previous mentioned dictators)
Yeah, he may be trying to make some nukes, but so was Iran and the world (USA) solved that in a much less aggressive way.
Obviously he needs to be taken out if the opportunity arises, but I can't help but feel he's a pretty useful world bogeyman for Trump at the moment........

https://www.ft.com/content/d5391d8e-08d6-11e7-97d1...

Trump or no Trump... they are a global problem

Edited by skyrover on Tuesday 25th April 17:42

[hidetheelephants]

Cobnapint said:

The BBC has just said that China has warned the US not to act without UN approval.

Well seeing as China is a permanent member of the UNSC - forget it. China has vetoed far less important resolutions on very iffy grounds before, many times, so they're hardly going to agree to a good hiding for their long term buddies in the North.

Given the Korean war has never legally been declared over perhaps continuation could be argued under UN resolutions 80-85, which covered things in 1950-53?

[wc98]

Efbe said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

Robertj21a said:

I know all the NK population, forces, generals etc are supposed to love PieMan but I wonder what, in practice, would actually happen if the US simply arranged for him to be 'eliminated'. Are the NK sufficiently brainwashed to do what they think he would have wanted - or are they just brainwashed to love/idolise him.

That's the $64Billion nuclear question, isn't it?

or if you could do it in such a way as to look 'natural'. you may have the issue of another brother/nephew popping up who is just the same though

best option is they run it by the chinese and russians then hit them hard. disable all roads and what little services they have along with weapon and troop bases. china then walk in on humanitarian grounds and basically take over. the chinese are easier to deal with than a lunatic .
the upcoming evacuation "exercise" may well be the real deal .

[AreOut]

Likes Fast Cars said:

Wonder if The Donald would ever hit the wrong button and take out both China and Fat Pie Boy in one go?

and find half of US cities gone as well

[Likes Fast Cars]

AreOut said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

Wonder if The Donald would ever hit the wrong button and take out both China and Fat Pie Boy in one go?

and find half of US cities gone as well

Yes exactly.

[FourWheelDrift]

It's not just the current Kim in charge, there's more to take over if he's taken out, Kim Il-sung had six legitimate children and eight legitimate grandchildren including, still alive:
Kim Yong-il - 72
Kim Kyong-hui - 70
Kim Pyong-il - 60

Plus Kim Jong Il's family offspring - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-il#Family

[Efbe]

FourWheelDrift said:

It's not just the current Kim in charge, there's more to take over if he's taken out, Kim Il-sung had six legitimate children and eight legitimate grandchildren including, still alive:
Kim Yong-il - 72
Kim Kyong-hui - 70
Kim Pyong-il - 60

Plus Kim Jong Il's family offspring - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-il#Family

I'm pretty sure they could just invent one too. It's not anyone is going to argue!

although, he probably has kids too, that might not be that yound any more.

[amgmcqueen]

What is Tubbs actually playing at though?

Him and his generals are living like gods in NK....why would you risk it all by constantly threatening the US and it's allies?

[srebbe64]

AJL308 said:

Efbe said:

AJL308 said:

mybrainhurts said:

You keep saying "they".

This is a one fatty-man dictatorship who feeds his family to dogs and executes others with anti aircraft guns.

He's worshipped as a god by the populace and everybody is scared stless, lest he throws a tantrum and kills them. Look at any photograph with his generals around him. They all look apprehensive. Plenty of this on the photoshop North Korea thread.

In these circumstances, theorising about what "they" will do is a pointless endeavour.

As my previous - no he isn't. I don't believe that assertion for one second. Yes, everyone is scared stless of him but they don't see him as a deity.

They behave as they are expected to behave, because they know the consequences of doing otherwise. The Japanese under the Emperor weren't like that. They didn't need punishment camps to make them 'believe' that the Emperor was a living god.

In 1,000 years time Fatty's descendants may be seen as living gods but at present he's just a tyrant and his people know that.

No they really don't.

There is a growing middle class in Pyongyang that are starting to slowly see this, but 99% of his people love him dearly.

The POV is this: He, like his father and father before him has saved them. He is single handedly stopping the evil western empire of the USA from overrunning their country by developing defense systems that scare the US off.
He clothes them, feeds them, houses them, educates them DESPITE the best efforts of the US Empire to stop him.
They are the greatest nation on earth, the purest, the most untouched by the evil US empire which is arrogant and selfish, walking oer the world for their own benefit.

The only way they would know anything different is if they had perspective, which they don't.

If they did hate him so much, would they not leave!

As I say though, that isn't the impression I get from the expressions on the faces populating the (staged and massively choreographed) massed parades for significant events. When Fat Lad's Dad died those people 'grieving' were doing no such thing. They were 'crying' because it was expected and required of them. That is patently obvious.

The Japanese who turned their faces to the earth when the Emperor passed by because it was forbidden to lay eyes on a living God and who later threw themselves from cliffs or ran toward US troops with grenades did it out of a genuine belief in the Emperor's God like status.

He's not the Messiah he's a very naughty boy!

[Cobnapint]

WestyCarl said:

Is Kim Jong "pie boy" being used as the world's bogey man now Saddam and Gadaffi have gone?
He's certainly an odious dictator, but is he such a threat to the world? Apart from crazy statements he's done nothing (unlike the two previous mentioned dictators)
Yeah, he may be trying to make some nukes, but so was Iran and the world (USA) solved that in a much less aggressive way.
Obviously he needs to be taken out if the opportunity arises, but I can't help but feel he's a pretty useful world bogeyman for Trump at the moment........

I don't think it's anything to do with having a bogeyman. Everyone was happy for him to carry on shooting his mouth off, making ridiculous threats and making a general prick of himself - until he started testing nuclear weapons. That's when everything changed.

Yes Iran (who completely denied even having a nuclear weapons programme) was convinced into stopping it through negotiations, but the difference is this - Iran is approachable, accessible, and part of OPEC, it has alot to lose. NK is a billy no mates highly secretive one-horse state with a big fookin chip on it's shoulder, that's just stopped taking advice from it's Chinese therapist.

[Efbe]

Cobnapint said:

WestyCarl said:

Is Kim Jong "pie boy" being used as the world's bogey man now Saddam and Gadaffi have gone?
He's certainly an odious dictator, but is he such a threat to the world? Apart from crazy statements he's done nothing (unlike the two previous mentioned dictators)
Yeah, he may be trying to make some nukes, but so was Iran and the world (USA) solved that in a much less aggressive way.
Obviously he needs to be taken out if the opportunity arises, but I can't help but feel he's a pretty useful world bogeyman for Trump at the moment........

I don't think it's anything to do with having a bogeyman. Everyone was happy for him to carry on shooting his mouth off, making ridiculous threats and making a general prick of himself - until he started testing nuclear weapons. That's when everything changed.

Yes Iran (who completely denied even having a nuclear weapons programme) was convinced into stopping it through negotiations, but the difference is this - Iran is approachable, accessible, and part of OPEC, it has alot to lose. NK is a billy no mates highly secretive one-horse state with a big fookin chip on it's shoulder, that's just stopped taking advice from it's Chinese therapist.

really? because NK testing nukes has been going on since 2006.

[Cobnapint]

Efbe said:

really? because NK testing nukes has been going on since 2006.

Correct. And that's when the obligatory sanctions started, followed by the obligatory waiting to see if they'd comply, followed by another test, followed by harsher sanctions, followed​ by a other test, etc etc.

That route is now exhausted.

[scherzkeks]

Cobnapint said:

WestyCarl said:

Is Kim Jong "pie boy" being used as the world's bogey man now Saddam and Gadaffi have gone?
He's certainly an odious dictator, but is he such a threat to the world? Apart from crazy statements he's done nothing (unlike the two previous mentioned dictators)
Yeah, he may be trying to make some nukes, but so was Iran and the world (USA) solved that in a much less aggressive way.
Obviously he needs to be taken out if the opportunity arises, but I can't help but feel he's a pretty useful world bogeyman for Trump at the moment........

That's when everything changed.

Aside from stale neocon talking points for pushing us into another illegal military adventure for profit.

Those never change.

[Cobnapint]

scherzkeks said:

Cobnapint said:

WestyCarl said:

Is Kim Jong "pie boy" being used as the world's bogey man now Saddam and Gadaffi have gone?
He's certainly an odious dictator, but is he such a threat to the world? Apart from crazy statements he's done nothing (unlike the two previous mentioned dictators)
Yeah, he may be trying to make some nukes, but so was Iran and the world (USA) solved that in a much less aggressive way.
Obviously he needs to be taken out if the opportunity arises, but I can't help but feel he's a pretty useful world bogeyman for Trump at the moment........

That's when everything changed.

Aside from stale neocon talking points for pushing us into another illegal military adventure for profit.

Those never change.

Not that old cookie - again.

Change the record. If Fatty wasn't developing ICBMs, and threatening Japan, SK and the US with nuclear armageddon, there would be no need for the present situation.

[Halmyre]

Cobnapint said:

scherzkeks said:

Cobnapint said:

WestyCarl said:

Is Kim Jong "pie boy" being used as the world's bogey man now Saddam and Gadaffi have gone?
He's certainly an odious dictator, but is he such a threat to the world? Apart from crazy statements he's done nothing (unlike the two previous mentioned dictators)
Yeah, he may be trying to make some nukes, but so was Iran and the world (USA) solved that in a much less aggressive way.
Obviously he needs to be taken out if the opportunity arises, but I can't help but feel he's a pretty useful world bogeyman for Trump at the moment........

That's when everything changed.

Aside from stale neocon talking points for pushing us into another illegal military adventure for profit.

Those never change.

Not that old cookie - again.

Change the record. If Fatty wasn't developing ICBMs, and threatening Japan, SK and the US with nuclear armageddon, there would be no need for the present situation.

But Kim Dim Son has always been a loose cannon, the difference now is that his oppo is also a loose cannon with a new-found urge to demonstrate just how powerfully-built he is.

As Andy Hamilton pointed out on The News Quiz, the military have got Trump now. They've shown him their toybox, and he's hooked.

[conkerman]

How long before he drops the penetrator?

[scherzkeks]

Halmyre said:

Cobnapint said:

scherzkeks said:

Cobnapint said:

WestyCarl said:

Is Kim Jong "pie boy" being used as the world's bogey man now Saddam and Gadaffi have gone?
He's certainly an odious dictator, but is he such a threat to the world? Apart from crazy statements he's done nothing (unlike the two previous mentioned dictators)
Yeah, he may be trying to make some nukes, but so was Iran and the world (USA) solved that in a much less aggressive way.
Obviously he needs to be taken out if the opportunity arises, but I can't help but feel he's a pretty useful world bogeyman for Trump at the moment........

That's when everything changed.

Aside from stale neocon talking points for pushing us into another illegal military adventure for profit.

Those never change.

Not that old cookie - again.

Change the record. If Fatty wasn't developing ICBMs, and threatening Japan, SK and the US with nuclear armageddon, there would be no need for the present situation.

But Kim Dim Son has always been a loose cannon, the difference now is that his oppo is also a loose cannon with a new-found urge to demonstrate just how powerfully-built he is.

As Andy Hamilton pointed out on The News Quiz, the military have got Trump now. They've shown him their toybox, and he's hooked.

There may definitely be some truth to this.

But in the past, we've had other boogeymen with WMDs to take care of first. So in this regard, Trump appears to be conforming if anything.

[superlightr]

also its easy to talk tough and matcho when you are not the one on the ground doing the dirty work or at any risk themselves ie the politicians.

Trump as others have said has a macho image to live upto, is new to the job, has to show he is not impotent and weak, sounds like he would be happy to send others to their deaths, would rather like to give the executive order of 'Fire' and 'take them out' a bit too keenly.

Having said that the supreme leader - no not trump the other one, could probably guess he would be one of the first ones taken out if he in NK does actually start something and I'm sure he does want to continue to eat his pies.

So it is a bit of rattling but one which I think Trump may well want to prove himself and leave his legacy plus at some state NK wont be allowed to develop a long range delivery system so Trump may just do it.

[anonymous-user]

scherzkeks said:

There may definitely be some truth to this.

But in the past, we've had other boogeymen with WMDs to take care of first. So in this regard, Trump appears to be conforming if anything.

Isn't Trump himself now the bogeyman with WMD? Destabilising statements about NATO, dropping MOABs on Afghanistan, one China policy, threatening the N. Koreans, sending a nuclear submarine to Busan and a carrier strike group to the region,

American foreign policy has been much more destabilising than anything the N Koreans have done. Imagine if a nuclear power positioned weapons next to the USA, say to Cuba? That could spark up all kinds of tensions.