North Korea - how serious should we take them?

[Cobnapint]

gadgetmac said:

So if the Yanks say it it's defo true? And NK agreeing to an 'open investigation' disregarded.

Lol.

It wasn't just the yanks, it was a multi-national investigation. You think all these countries individual experts would be willing to put their name to something, risking their own professional credibility just to give the yanks the chance of a cheap shot at NK...?

"In their summary for the United Nations Security Council, the investigation group was described as the "Joint Civilian-Military Investigation Group of the Republic of Korea with the participation of international experts from Australia, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States, and the Multinational Combined Intelligence Task Force, comprising the Republic of Korea, Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom and the United States," which consisted of "25 experts from 10 top Korean expert agencies, 22 military experts, 3 experts recommended by the National Assembly, and 24 foreign experts constituting 4 support teams"

Keep wriggling......

[Efbe]

garagewidow said:

Efbe said:

Unfortunately we don't.

The US doesn't either. IIRC they have been working on one since the 1980s when Raegan started their "star wars" project.

30 Years later... http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/22/intercept-att...

I remember that in the news at the time,
I wouldn't be surprised if there has been significant development in laser tech over recent years which we don't know about,cruise and icbms' are quite old tech when you consider that the Nazis were throwing v2 rockets at us In the 1940s',
they are just hardware now,warfare has moved on into the electronic age,look at the tech in the hubble telescope and recent space projects etc don't tell me that that technology hasn't been harnessed and developed for defence purposes.
just my opinion of course.

This is a very good point.
If you read a book such as this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/031634947X/ref... which is actually a really really good read, which talks about DARPA, the R&D branch of the military, the tech they are working on is always well ahead of their time, and us mere mortals will not hear about until 20/30/40 years later.

Stuff like: in vietnam, they had a huge network of sensor probes dropped into the jungle, that could pinpoint the sounds of enemy fighters walking through. It was a complete failure then, but similar systems are in use now.
Some of the developments are batsttcrazy, some revolutionary, some just become part of our daily lives.

However as others have stated, stopping an ICBM is incredibly difficult. There are ABMs(anti ballistic missile systems) in operation at military sites in the US. Their ships have them, I expect major cities will have something. But even then it is difficult.
Hopefully the weapons NK are developing are relatively simple.
If they got hold of something modern a MIRV, such as Trident, which splits into multiple heads before impact, it gets even more impossible to stop all of them. Lets hope NK isn't actually getting too much help from Russia/China!

[Efbe]

Cobnapint said:

Keep wriggling......

Cobna, I would appreciate you having a look through the wiki page on NK-SK relations, to get you take on what it says about whether the two countries have been trying to talk, if there have been attemptes at reconciliation, how they went. Bear in mind the North Koreans are not able to contribute to wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea%E2%80%93...

Would be interesting to see what conclusions you draw from this.

[Cobnapint]

Efbe said:

Cobnapint said:

Keep wriggling......

Cobna, I would appreciate you having a look through the wiki page on NK-SK relations, to get you take on what it says about whether the two countries have been trying to talk, if there have been attemptes at reconciliation, how they went. Bear in mind the North Koreans are not able to contribute to wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea%E2%80%93...

Would be interesting to see what conclusions you draw from this.

NK and SK don't get on - who knew...?!

Can't see anything in there about SK blowing one of its own vessels in two, planting evidence on the hull and sea floor, and going on to convince a team of international experts into rigging the conclusion in favour of US foreign policy though.

Could you post that particular link please, you just might turn me.

[Efbe]

Cobnapint said:

NK and SK don't get on - who knew...?!

Can't see anything in there about SK blowing one of its own vessels in two, planting evidence on the hull and sea floor, and going on to convince a team of international experts into rigging the conclusion in favour of US foreign policy though.

Could you post that particular link please, you just might turn me.

I was't trying to show you that. I was trying to find out how you interpret that information.
Not regarding apportioning to blame to anyone, but in how the reconciliation process has gone.

All you seem to have got from that is that they don't get on. Which is incredibly different from what I took from it.

[Sylvaforever]

arm3000gt said:

There is no real defence against an ICBM.

Disallowed by treaty to get the Ruskies to sign up..

https://youtu.be/5vq4mWyYl2Y


https://youtu.be/5vq4mWyYl2Y


So fast it turns white hot!

[gadgetmac]

Cobnapint said:

It wasn't just the yanks, it was a multi-national investigation. You think all these countries individual experts would be willing to put their name to something, risking their own professional credibility just to give the yanks the chance of a cheap shot at NK...?

"In their summary for the United Nations Security Council, the investigation group was described as the "Joint Civilian-Military Investigation Group of the Republic of Korea with the participation of international experts from Australia, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States, and the Multinational Combined Intelligence Task Force, comprising the Republic of Korea, Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom and the United States," which consisted of "25 experts from 10 top Korean expert agencies, 22 military experts, 3 experts recommended by the National Assembly, and 24 foreign experts constituting 4 support teams"

Keep wriggling......

Yes, all of those countries are almost as inside the USA's pocket over North Korea as you are.

Stangely the country accused is refused participation. Furthermore anybody who might dissent from the US view is sidelined.

Oh well.

[Cobnapint]

gadgetmac said:

Cobnapint said:

It wasn't just the yanks, it was a multi-national investigation. You think all these countries individual experts would be willing to put their name to something, risking their own professional credibility just to give the yanks the chance of a cheap shot at NK...?

"In their summary for the United Nations Security Council, the investigation group was described as the "Joint Civilian-Military Investigation Group of the Republic of Korea with the participation of international experts from Australia, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States, and the Multinational Combined Intelligence Task Force, comprising the Republic of Korea, Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom and the United States," which consisted of "25 experts from 10 top Korean expert agencies, 22 military experts, 3 experts recommended by the National Assembly, and 24 foreign experts constituting 4 support teams"

Keep wriggling......

Yes, all of those countries are almost as inside the USA's pocket over North Korea as you are.

Stangely the country accused is refused participation. Furthermore anybody who might dissent from the US view is sidelined.

Oh well.

You're the one arguing night is day in the face of such damning evidence,. If anybodys pocket squatting it's you.

And there's a real good reason why NK wasn't asked to take part in an investigation as to why a SK navy corvette was blown in half killing 46. It'd be like putting the Yorkshire Ripper in as foreman of the jury at his own trial.

[gadgetmac]

Cobnapint said:

gadgetmac said:

Cobnapint said:

It wasn't just the yanks, it was a multi-national investigation. You think all these countries individual experts would be willing to put their name to something, risking their own professional credibility just to give the yanks the chance of a cheap shot at NK...?

"In their summary for the United Nations Security Council, the investigation group was described as the "Joint Civilian-Military Investigation Group of the Republic of Korea with the participation of international experts from Australia, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States, and the Multinational Combined Intelligence Task Force, comprising the Republic of Korea, Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom and the United States," which consisted of "25 experts from 10 top Korean expert agencies, 22 military experts, 3 experts recommended by the National Assembly, and 24 foreign experts constituting 4 support teams"

Keep wriggling......

Yes, all of those countries are almost as inside the USA's pocket over North Korea as you are.

Stangely the country accused is refused participation. Furthermore anybody who might dissent from the US view is sidelined.

Oh well.

You're the one arguing night is day in the face of such damning evidence,. If anybodys pocket squatting it's you.

And there's a real good reason why NK wasn't asked to take part in an investigation as to why a SK navy corvette was blown in half killing 46. It'd be like putting the Yorkshire Ripper in as foreman of the jury at his own trial.

Once again you state who is to blame before the investigation has even begun.

That about says it all. There's no due process where they get a chance to equally examine the evdence and point out any inconsistencies.

[Cobnapint]

gadgetmac said:

Once again you state who is to blame before the investigation has even begun.

That about says it all. There's no due process where they get a chance to equally examine the evdence and point out any inconsistencies.

Investigation not begun...?

Due process...?

North Korea....?

Wow.

In other news, gadgetmac insists the moon is made of cheese.

[gadgetmac]

Let me know what you America says its made with and I'll not question it, ever, no sir.

[jmorgan]

Anyone thinking NK would take an investigation seriously, I have an excellent land deal for you.


Come see me at low tide to view it.

[scherzkeks]

gadgetmac said:

Cobnapint said:

gadgetmac said:

Cobnapint said:

scherzkeks said:

Cobnapint said:

scherzkeks said:

These incidents have been going on for years and cut both ways, particularly at the border.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incid...

And specifically:

"March 26, 2010: A South Korean naval vessel, the ROKS Cheonan, was allegedly sunk by a North Korean torpedo near Baengnyeong Island in the Yellow Sea. "

"The United Nations Security Council made a Presidential Statement condemning the attack but without identifying the attacker.[35]"

As so often, on closer inspection, your claims fall apart.

That's desperate stuff, even for you keks.

Thank you for conceding that, once again, you are incapable of presenting evidence to back your claim.

Conceding? Never mind the job at RT mate, you'd slot in nicely as a spokesman at the North Korean embassy.

Have a little read through this, if there's anything you don't understand about traces of RDX torpedo explosive being found on the hull, or substantial torpedo fragments, consistent with the type used by NK (complete with markings) being dredged up from the sea bed at the site of the sinking, or anything else - no matter how small, please do not hesitate to ask.

We are here to help.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinki...

You can't help if all you're going to present is half the story. Did you read the whole of the article you linked to?

Last paragraph;

'North Korea denied that it was responsible for the sinking. North Korea's further offer to aid an open investigation was disregarded. China dismissed the official scenario presented by South Korea and the United States as not credible. An investigation by the Russian Navy also did not concur with the report. The United Nations Security Council made a Presidential Statement condemning the attack but without identifying the attacker.'

So I'm afraid that incident does not back you up.

I read the whole article alright.

North Korea denying it - Russia and China not supporting a multi-nation wide ranging Investigation.

Lol.

So if the Yanks say it it's defo true? And NK agreeing to an 'open investigation' disregarded.

Lol.

UN didn't designate NK responsible either.

Pro tip: ask him for proof that NK did it. Watch the fireworks.

[CoolHands]

Oh no, death by multi-quote

[Cobnapint]

scherzkeks said:

UN didn't designate NK responsible either.

Pro tip: ask him for proof that NK did it. Watch the fireworks.

We don't need anymore clever dicks like you thinking they've won the argument by asking for proof every five minutes, especially when it's often impossible to do.

Even when links to investigations containing clear evidence do get quoted (such as in this case) you still ignore them or poo poo them, slip in the word neo-cons and dismiss anything that points to guilt on behalf of any regime that is anti-west.

[Countdown]

I'm no expert in geo-politics but holding live-fire drills on the borders of a country controlled by a nutcase with nuclear weapons possibly isn't the wisest thing to do.

https://www.rferl.org/a/korea-us-bombers-live-fire...

[jmorgan]

Countdown said:

I'm no expert in geo-politics but holding live-fire drills on the borders of a country controlled by a nutcase with nuclear weapons possibly isn't the wisest thing to do.

https://www.rferl.org/a/korea-us-bombers-live-fire...

Granted but what did he expect when he is lobbing misses around on a whim. Looking back at the history of the DMZ, there are a lot of games of chicken being played and some serious incursions.

[scherzkeks]

Cobnapint said:

scherzkeks said:

UN didn't designate NK responsible either.

Pro tip: ask him for proof that NK did it. Watch the fireworks.

We don't need anymore clever dicks like you thinking they've won the argument by asking for proof every five minutes

Don't make unverifiable claims.

Simple.

[Cobnapint]

scherzkeks said:

Cobnapint said:

scherzkeks said:

UN didn't designate NK responsible either.

Pro tip: ask him for proof that NK did it. Watch the fireworks.

We don't need anymore clever dicks like you thinking they've won the argument by asking for proof every five minutes

Don't make unverifiable claims.

Simple.

Don't deny the truth that's already been established.

Simple.

[Munter]

CoolHands said:

Oh no, death by multi-quote

Just looking that the last word of your post. It appears you've misspelt .