North Korea - how serious should we take them?
Discussion
cqueen said:
'Leave them to it while they are weak' is the same tactic we (the allies so to speak) used with the Nazis. Had we dealt with Hitler sooner the world would have suffered a mere fraction of the 50,000,000 that died. Instead we resisted going to war (understandably, because war is horrible) and ended up on the wrong end of a hiding.
Fat boy is weak, but clearly gaining strength and deliberately goading his enemies. This could be history repeating itself.
So, do you want 25 thousand dead? or 25 million?
Act now I say.
Fat boy is weak, but clearly gaining strength and deliberately goading his enemies. This could be history repeating itself.
So, do you want 25 thousand dead? or 25 million?
Act now I say.
gotta love people who are willing to SACRIFICE other peoples lives with no danger to their own. In this case hundreds of thousands of other peoples lives.I'd have a little more sympathy if you were actually posting from your home in Seoul - but even then not a lot more.
gadgetmac said:
cqueen said:
'Leave them to it while they are weak' is the same tactic we (the allies so to speak) used with the Nazis. Had we dealt with Hitler sooner the world would have suffered a mere fraction of the 50,000,000 that died. Instead we resisted going to war (understandably, because war is horrible) and ended up on the wrong end of a hiding.
Fat boy is weak, but clearly gaining strength and deliberately goading his enemies. This could be history repeating itself.
So, do you want 25 thousand dead? or 25 million?
Act now I say.
Fat boy is weak, but clearly gaining strength and deliberately goading his enemies. This could be history repeating itself.
So, do you want 25 thousand dead? or 25 million?
Act now I say.
gotta love people who are willing to SACRIFICE other peoples lives with no danger to their own. In this case hundreds of thousands of other peoples lives.I'd have a little more sympathy if you were actually posting from your home in Seoul - but even then not a lot more.
gadgetmac said:
cqueen said:
'Leave them to it while they are weak' is the same tactic we (the allies so to speak) used with the Nazis. Had we dealt with Hitler sooner the world would have suffered a mere fraction of the 50,000,000 that died. Instead we resisted going to war (understandably, because war is horrible) and ended up on the wrong end of a hiding.
Fat boy is weak, but clearly gaining strength and deliberately goading his enemies. This could be history repeating itself.
So, do you want 25 thousand dead? or 25 million?
Act now I say.
Fat boy is weak, but clearly gaining strength and deliberately goading his enemies. This could be history repeating itself.
So, do you want 25 thousand dead? or 25 million?
Act now I say.
gotta love people who are willing to SACRIFICE other peoples lives with no danger to their own. In this case hundreds of thousands of other peoples lives.I'd have a little more sympathy if you were actually posting from your home in Seoul - but even then not a lot more.
speedyman said:
Why don't the USA just shoot down the rockets during these test phases in international airspace, with no test data they would not be making progress or are these so called missile defense systems not what there cracked up to be?
They wouldn't be able to gain any intelligence on the progress of his missile program and what kind of threat he poses.I'm more interested on where he got these tubes from in the first place, and the guidance systems, and the rocket tech. Somebody somewhere is helping this guy and I wouldn't mind betting the US know exactly who it is. When he finally gets round to perfecting and testing the warhead - expect a big reveal from the Donald.
Why don't Tubs and Trump get together in a neutral country like Switzerland and thrash out their differences?
To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war ( Winston Churchill 1954)
I don't blame Kim for thinking who is America to tell me I can't have nukes when America have 5000 them, many pointing at NK, which could be launched within minutes wiping out the entire country.
A case of do as I say, not do as I do.
I don't for one second think Kim would launch a pre-emptive strike, America would obliterate NK within an hour, but Kim looks on it as insurance.
To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war ( Winston Churchill 1954)
I don't blame Kim for thinking who is America to tell me I can't have nukes when America have 5000 them, many pointing at NK, which could be launched within minutes wiping out the entire country.
A case of do as I say, not do as I do.
I don't for one second think Kim would launch a pre-emptive strike, America would obliterate NK within an hour, but Kim looks on it as insurance.
speedyman said:
Why don't the USA just shoot down the rockets during these test phases in international airspace, with no test data they would not be making progress or are these so called missile defense systems not what there cracked up to be?
Patriot / THAAD are designed to intercept incoming threats, not outgoing ones. I think the ship-borne Aegis can intercept mid-course short- and intermediate-range ballistic missiles, but not ICBM class targets, The amount of time an ICBM spends in 'international airspace' before leaving the atmosphere is small anyway ( possibly zero, depending on where in NK it was launched).Besides, if the US did have the ability to reliably shoot down an ICBM in the boost phase, and demonstrated it on one of NK's test flights, that would massively change the whole strategic equation with regards to the Russians and Chinese.
cqueen said:
gadgetmac said:
Correct decisions are made without emotional attachment.
If so, you're a loon.
gadgetmac said:
So you feel that if similar circumstances prevailed in Europe then its OK for the USA to sacrifice Millions of brits in southern england in order that the USA doesn't feel threatened by (say) Belgium? You'd be happy to do that for the sake of the perceived threat those poor Americans are feeling thousands of miles away yes?
If so, you're a loon.
Not sure I follow?If so, you're a loon.
eharding said:
speedyman said:
Why don't the USA just shoot down the rockets during these test phases in international airspace, with no test data they would not be making progress or are these so called missile defense systems not what there cracked up to be?
Patriot / THAAD are designed to intercept incoming threats, not outgoing ones. I think the ship-borne Aegis can intercept mid-course short- and intermediate-range ballistic missiles, but not ICBM class targets, The amount of time an ICBM spends in 'international airspace' before leaving the atmosphere is small anyway ( possibly zero, depending on where in NK it was launched).Besides, if the US did have the ability to reliably shoot down an ICBM in the boost phase, and demonstrated it on one of NK's test flights, that would massively change the whole strategic equation with regards to the Russians and Chinese.
Seems we finally have a leader that might just be crazy enough to attack another country with an ICBM
rich85uk said:
eharding said:
speedyman said:
Why don't the USA just shoot down the rockets during these test phases in international airspace, with no test data they would not be making progress or are these so called missile defense systems not what there cracked up to be?
Patriot / THAAD are designed to intercept incoming threats, not outgoing ones. I think the ship-borne Aegis can intercept mid-course short- and intermediate-range ballistic missiles, but not ICBM class targets, The amount of time an ICBM spends in 'international airspace' before leaving the atmosphere is small anyway ( possibly zero, depending on where in NK it was launched).Besides, if the US did have the ability to reliably shoot down an ICBM in the boost phase, and demonstrated it on one of NK's test flights, that would massively change the whole strategic equation with regards to the Russians and Chinese.
Seems we finally have a leader that might just be crazy enough to attack another country with an ICBM
cqueen said:
gadgetmac said:
So you feel that if similar circumstances prevailed in Europe then its OK for the USA to sacrifice Millions of brits in southern england in order that the USA doesn't feel threatened by (say) Belgium? You'd be happy to do that for the sake of the perceived threat those poor Americans are feeling thousands of miles away yes?
If so, you're a loon.
Not sure I follow?If so, you're a loon.
I gave you another scenario but swapped-out South Korea and inserted the South of England in its place.
Are you still happy to apply your principle here too?
gadgetmac said:
Are you still happy to apply your principle here too?
No, because that would affect me and I would be personally/emotionally involved. But that doesn't make it the correct decision!"The ship is sinking, someone needs to jump off!"
-"Well it's your idea, how about you then?"
"Er no thanks!"
"Ok then we're agreed, let's just wait it out".
No decision = Bad decision.
I really hope it does not come to war, but having a madman in charge of nukes is a terrifying thought.
Just so we're clear then.
You're happy for South Koreans to die in their millions to protect against a threat the USA percieve could befall them but not happy should it include you.
Principles eh, so easy to divest yourself of them should the need arise.
Well, I admire your honesty if not your integrity.
You're happy for South Koreans to die in their millions to protect against a threat the USA percieve could befall them but not happy should it include you.
Principles eh, so easy to divest yourself of them should the need arise.
Well, I admire your honesty if not your integrity.
Trump says China is doing 'nothing' to help stop NK's nuclear ambitions.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/30/do...
That's right Donald, they aren't, because they secretly want NK to get them. In fact they are probably helping them - they are buddies, China wants another nuke capable adversary to the US in the area to help keep them in check.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/30/do...
That's right Donald, they aren't, because they secretly want NK to get them. In fact they are probably helping them - they are buddies, China wants another nuke capable adversary to the US in the area to help keep them in check.
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