Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
Digga said:
There is something about the serial short-termism of democratic governance that concerns me. IMHO one of the reasons the German economy has fared consistently well is their longer-term planning and fiscal responsibility.
to be fair if a government is up to the task as the germans had, it will get the time for long term planning. the downside is every now and then we get an entire house full of incompetents as we have now. wc98 said:
Digga said:
There is something about the serial short-termism of democratic governance that concerns me. IMHO one of the reasons the German economy has fared consistently well is their longer-term planning and fiscal responsibility.
to be fair if a government is up to the task as the germans had, it will get the time for long term planning. the downside is every now and then we get an entire house full of incompetents as we have now.tumble dryer said:
wc98 said:
Digga said:
There is something about the serial short-termism of democratic governance that concerns me. IMHO one of the reasons the German economy has fared consistently well is their longer-term planning and fiscal responsibility.
to be fair if a government is up to the task as the germans had, it will get the time for long term planning. the downside is every now and then we get an entire house full of incompetents as we have now.Looking at the state of UK roads and the abject lack of investment in the infrastructure, we've been plagued with spineless, clueless and sightless governments for decades.
Digga said:
tumble dryer said:
wc98 said:
Digga said:
There is something about the serial short-termism of democratic governance that concerns me. IMHO one of the reasons the German economy has fared consistently well is their longer-term planning and fiscal responsibility.
to be fair if a government is up to the task as the germans had, it will get the time for long term planning. the downside is every now and then we get an entire house full of incompetents as we have now.Looking at the state of UK roads and the abject lack of investment in the infrastructure, we've been plagued with spineless, clueless and sightless governments for decades.
Unless, of course, the plans they have mean that much of the infrastructure will not need investment. Notably UK roads.
It seems that Gove is going for diesels again and now tyres too.
Now if they had a government controlled all electric future in mind with vehicles (and indeed travel) as a utility rather than leisure exercise the requirements for the national infrastructure might be very different to how we might envisage it today.
I don;t think the country can afford to both maintain the present and build the future when the requirements are likely thought to be so different that maintenance of now offers now cost or development support benefit to future investments.
LongQ said:
Now if they had a government controlled all electric future in mind with vehicles...
I really cannot see that being a reality anywhere and certainly (for economies of scale, to develop the technology, if no other reason) not in the UK before anywhere else.LongQ said:
I don;t think the country can afford to both maintain the present and build the future when the requirements are likely thought to be so different that maintenance of now offers now cost or development support benefit to future investments.
I cannot afford not too, it just hasn't fully realised it yet. Westminster runs on taxes generated by people who need to shift goods and services within the UK and, predominantly and for the foreseeable future, that means road. They can blithely ignore the RUK and keep piling money in to the city, on the vaguely justifiable metric of tax-take, but that ignores the costs of jobs lost in the provinces and the potential welfare bills.Digga said:
LongQ said:
Now if they had a government controlled all electric future in mind with vehicles...
I really cannot see that being a reality anywhere and certainly (for economies of scale, to develop the technology, if no other reason) not in the UK before anywhere else.Digga said:
LongQ said:
I don;t think the country can afford to both maintain the present and build the future when the requirements are likely thought to be so different that maintenance of now offers now cost or development support benefit to future investments.
I cannot afford not too, it just hasn't fully realised it yet. Westminster runs on taxes generated by people who need to shift goods and services within the UK and, predominantly and for the foreseeable future, that means road. They can blithely ignore the RUK and keep piling money in to the city, on the vaguely justifiable metric of tax-take, but that ignores the costs of jobs lost in the provinces and the potential welfare bills.They think making all motorways "Smart" and building HS2 will be enough.
Highly visible but highly disruptive medium term developments that will all require repair and updating soon after they are finished and are competing for investment with electric vehicle charging infrastructure and a wet political classes green dreams.
Politicians only exist to change things and leave legacies with their name attached to them. It's a syndrome that seems to have become more prevalent in the modern era. Especially in the UK as its independent power and influence has waned in deference to the EU and it's worldwide presence has been vacated in deference to the UN.
The politicians in Westminster have very little influence to wield and now act rather like local government used to act 2 or 3 decades ago. But they have most of the tax budget in their hands making democracy an ever more distant possibility.
One could of course debate whether that matters.
Gargamel said:
Well the Italians appear to be squaring up for a fight. Appointing a Eurosceptic Economic Minister and describing the Euro as a German cage...
All over by Autumn?
Not a chance.All over by Autumn?
Fuss and bluster from the Italians. They're right in many respects, but they have no chance to exit the cage.
Murph7355 said:
Gargamel said:
Well the Italians appear to be squaring up for a fight. Appointing a Eurosceptic Economic Minister and describing the Euro as a German cage...
All over by Autumn?
Not a chance.All over by Autumn?
Fuss and bluster from the Italians. They're right in many respects, but they have no chance to exit the cage.
fblm said:
Quite. Although pretending to be, or actually being, economically suicidal is quite a good position to negotiate with the EU from! That said leaving the Euro would be rather like trying to cure a persistent headache by shooting yourself in the head.
Think the game is to manouver German to either balance trade or write of the debts...Debt write off seems most logical aim. Simply write off our debt or we default. Italy will have seen what's happend in Greece and will not want to be salves to debt so force the hand of the EU. The EU cares more about the EU project than the member states so will bend, break etc its own rules to keep the EU dream alive it will not want another exiting country.
Rovinghawk said:
Gecko1978 said:
Debt write off seems most logical aim. Simply write off our debt or we default.
And after the write-off/default please carry on lending as per the past?How long has this thread been going on and how many volumes ?
The answer is no. Some dumb feck years past asked if the end was nigh. Trying to make it was going to be washed up on the rocks compared to proper currencies such as pounds shillings and tuppences.
Guess what?
Can someone in charge at PH halt this xenophobic madness ?
The answer is no. Some dumb feck years past asked if the end was nigh. Trying to make it was going to be washed up on the rocks compared to proper currencies such as pounds shillings and tuppences.
Guess what?
Can someone in charge at PH halt this xenophobic madness ?
I'm in Italy at the moment having a lovely holiday. I have noticed 3 things:
They do seem to have a fair number of immigrants just idling on the streets. Not threatening, just sort of making Florence & Pisa look a bit more messy.
Every public building seems to have 3 flags over the entrance; the Italian flag in the middle, a local flag on the right and the EU stars on the left. It's a bit in your face seeing the EU flag everywhere, I don't know if this is a sign of love, or something that would wind the locals up.
The ECB appear to have been very forgiving with Italy's debt terms through their bond purchases. I found lots of internet links showing that the average term of the debt has gone from ~4 years to ~7 and the interest gone down quite significantly. Italian debt interest payments as a % of their government revenue actually looks historically quite low at ~10%. I don't know if I would throw that away for an inflationary Lira in the hope it might solve Southern unemployment. I might threaten it though to try to get even better debt terms.
They do seem to have a fair number of immigrants just idling on the streets. Not threatening, just sort of making Florence & Pisa look a bit more messy.
Every public building seems to have 3 flags over the entrance; the Italian flag in the middle, a local flag on the right and the EU stars on the left. It's a bit in your face seeing the EU flag everywhere, I don't know if this is a sign of love, or something that would wind the locals up.
The ECB appear to have been very forgiving with Italy's debt terms through their bond purchases. I found lots of internet links showing that the average term of the debt has gone from ~4 years to ~7 and the interest gone down quite significantly. Italian debt interest payments as a % of their government revenue actually looks historically quite low at ~10%. I don't know if I would throw that away for an inflationary Lira in the hope it might solve Southern unemployment. I might threaten it though to try to get even better debt terms.
grantone said:
I'm in Italy at the moment having a lovely holiday. I have noticed 3 things:
They do seem to have a fair number of immigrants just idling on the streets. Not threatening, just sort of making Florence & Pisa look a bit more messy.
Every public building seems to have 3 flags over the entrance; the Italian flag in the middle, a local flag on the right and the EU stars on the left. It's a bit in your face seeing the EU flag everywhere, I don't know if this is a sign of love, or something that would wind the locals up.
The ECB appear to have been very forgiving with Italy's debt terms through their bond purchases. I found lots of internet links showing that the average term of the debt has gone from ~4 years to ~7 and the interest gone down quite significantly. Italian debt interest payments as a % of their government revenue actually looks historically quite low at ~10%. I don't know if I would throw that away for an inflationary Lira in the hope it might solve Southern unemployment. I might threaten it though to try to get even better debt terms.
Guess what, the end is not nigh for the euro, even after your holiday jauntThey do seem to have a fair number of immigrants just idling on the streets. Not threatening, just sort of making Florence & Pisa look a bit more messy.
Every public building seems to have 3 flags over the entrance; the Italian flag in the middle, a local flag on the right and the EU stars on the left. It's a bit in your face seeing the EU flag everywhere, I don't know if this is a sign of love, or something that would wind the locals up.
The ECB appear to have been very forgiving with Italy's debt terms through their bond purchases. I found lots of internet links showing that the average term of the debt has gone from ~4 years to ~7 and the interest gone down quite significantly. Italian debt interest payments as a % of their government revenue actually looks historically quite low at ~10%. I don't know if I would throw that away for an inflationary Lira in the hope it might solve Southern unemployment. I might threaten it though to try to get even better debt terms.
Gandahar said:
Guess what, the end is not nigh for the euro, even after your holiday jaunt
I agree, I thought that was sort of obvious from my last observation.You should join in with the discussion, the Euro can be a quite interesting topic with all the weird back end stuff that has to happen to make it work without direct cash transfers from the strong regions. It's an experiment that is playing out live and might be a blueprint for future regional currency unions (East African Community the one I'm watching). You don't have to agree with the thread title!
Italy's president has refused to allow a "Euro"sceptic economy minister, so the PM-elect has effectively resigned before having anything to resign from, sparking calls for a new election.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44275010
Interesting times.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44275010
Interesting times.
Murph7355 said:
Gargamel said:
Well the Italians appear to be squaring up for a fight. Appointing a Eurosceptic Economic Minister and describing the Euro as a German cage...
All over by Autumn?
Not a chance.All over by Autumn?
Fuss and bluster from the Italians. They're right in many respects, but they have no chance to exit the cage.
http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002262.html#more
More often than not, he is usually right
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff