Yet another... recycling plant fire

[Russ35]

The 16year old that started the Fleetwood fire has received a police caution and had to write a letter saying he was sorry.

http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/crime/teena...

[Oakey]

Wonder how much he was paid to start it? cynical?

[thatsprettyshady]

300 tonnes up in Wandsworth this afternoon...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-368847...

2nd time in a week???

[saaby93]

Here we go
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37...



How else do you get rid of old rubbish?

[Digga]

I saw this on my FB feed this morning. Seems the fire's also spread to a neighbouring garage and done some serious damage there too.

Nice motor wrecked:

[saaby93]

Isnt the idea they let the 'recycling' plant burn itself out while they try to prevent spread of fire to other properties.

[Digga]

saaby93 said:

Isnt the idea they let the 'recycling' plant burn itself out while they try to prevent spread of fire to other properties.

If you Google map it, the 'recycling' yard is right behind Stratstone Land Rover. I'd guees the intense heat and wind direction blew flames that way. TBF, the other side of the yard is a bloody railway, so that could have been nasty!

For one thing, at some point, this is going to start to impact on insurance of innocent neighbours; insurance companies are going to begin loading your premium if one of the nearby/next door businesses is a 'recycling' yard.

For another, it's only matter of time before there are serious injuries or deaths in another such event.

The bigger issue is regulation; there seems to be very little, if any.

[CoolHands]

One in Cornwall. Surely any other industry would be looked at by now - imagine the number of people (public) affected by these fires in total? And the workers and fire fighters put at risk?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-3701...

[hornetrider]

That's a big one.

[kiethton]

Big one all but closed the Blackwall Tunnel yesterday...

A moody nightclub and a recycling centre taken out in 1 fire - £££££

http://www.wharf.co.uk/news/local-news/100-firefig...

[Digga]

kiethton said:

Big one all but closed the Blackwall Tunnel yesterday...

A moody nightclub and a recycling centre taken out in 1 fire - £££££

http://www.wharf.co.uk/news/local-news/100-firefig...

It's a recurrent issue. IIRC a scrap yard under railway lines went up in flames in Brum a few years back. The location of these yards next to infrastructure needs urgent review.

ETA that site in East Grenwich is next to a gas regulator and across the road from a chemical storage warehouse!

Edited by Digga on Tuesday 9th August 11:40

[anonymous-user]

Digga said:

kiethton said:

Big one all but closed the Blackwall Tunnel yesterday...

A moody nightclub and a recycling centre taken out in 1 fire - £££££

http://www.wharf.co.uk/news/local-news/100-firefig...

It's a recurrent issue. IIRC a scrap yard under railway lines went up in flames in Brum a few years back. The location of these yards next to infrastructure needs urgent review.

ETA that site in East Grenwich is next to a gas regulator and across the road from a chemical storage warehouse!

Edited by Digga on Tuesday 9th August 11:40

Although this fire seems to have started in the club in today's reports.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/greenwich-fi...

[CardinalFang]

Digga said:

If you Google map it, the 'recycling' yard is right behind Stratstone Land Rover. I'd guees the intense heat and wind direction blew flames that way. TBF, the other side of the yard is a bloody railway, so that could have been nasty!

For one thing, at some point, this is going to start to impact on insurance of innocent neighbours; insurance companies are going to begin loading your premium if one of the nearby/next door businesses is a 'recycling' yard.

In that particular case, rumour has it that potential buyers for a nearby block of flats, were told that the recycling centre was closing down...Sharks exist in every industry unfortunately

Correct though - insurance will be a factor if it isn't already. It works both ways though, you could expect the recycler involved in a major leak/fire to a) get screwed by their insurers & b) get moved on by their landlord.

I work in the industry so am aware of the issues & some of the cases featured on this thread: I don't work for any of them I should state. Happy to answer questions if anyone is interested, but please bear in mind there are cases here being investigated & prosecuted. Fang.

[e21Mark]

CoolHands said:

One in Cornwall. Surely any other industry would be looked at by now - imagine the number of people (public) affected by these fires in total? And the workers and fire fighters put at risk?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-3701...

Trains all cancelled too, so a bit of chaos ensues. Spent today taking passengers by cab to Bristol.

[saaby93]

One more
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-3723...

The Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service said:

a large quantity of rubbish is on fire

[skwdenyer]

CardinalFang said:

I work in the industry so am aware of the issues & some of the cases featured on this thread: I don't work for any of them I should state. Happy to answer questions if anyone is interested, but please bear in mind there are cases here being investigated & prosecuted. Fang.

So, assuming for a moment that it isn't just a lot of arson, what is really happening?

Stuff stored can be surprisingly active. For example, laundries are a particular hazard: wet cotton garments left for long periods in compacted form can - and do - spontaneously combust. So is there a well-known mechanism for autoignition that is simply not being properly managed? Or is it really just dodgy people with dodgy motives?

[Digga]

Our turn this time. Some scruffy old farm near Cannock Chase caught fire: http://www.expressandstar.com/news/emergency-servi...

This is the farm on Google maps and, as you can see, the rubbish pile was only a recent thing. Very possibly unlicenced: http://www.expressandstar.com/news/emergency-servi...

[CardinalFang]

skwdenyer said:

So, assuming for a moment that it isn't just a lot of arson, what is really happening?

Stuff stored can be surprisingly active. For example, laundries are a particular hazard: wet cotton garments left for long periods in compacted form can - and do - spontaneously combust. So is there a well-known mechanism for autoignition that is simply not being properly managed? Or is it really just dodgy people with dodgy motives?

Sorry skwdenyer - didn't keep track of this. Short answer is mainly accidental & some fraud, I think. You couldn't keep paper & card outside for very long - it's unsaleable when wet, so it may be indoors & bone dry - you couldn't damp it down with fire suppression systems/sprays either. (I might pay £100 a tonne for cardboard but I'm not going to pay that for cardboard & water!). So, storage, coupled with ventilation issues, weather conditions, an accidental spark (lots of machinery/equipment/hydraulics in these places), & maybe a short staffed night shift means a small incident can get out of control pretty quickly. Paper & card are combustible enough but some of these places make RDF - refuse derived fuel, mostly EU bound (they have more power stations geared up for it than we do). It's worth practically nothing so if you hold stock for a couple of months waiting for the price to move a couple of quid & like in your cotton example, you've got a stockpile of 500mt, warm weather...you can see the potential

Sharks exist in the industry of course, but our environment agency have increasing powers of prosecution, plus insurers & local authorities are getting ruthless. Yes there are always those who'll screw the system, take the money & run, but for the rest it's a bloody tough industry - high volume, thin margins. Your bin collector might have a 25 year contract with your local authority, but the waste he sells on (paper, card, various plastics grades, steel, aluminium) for re-processing is subject to price changes on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. Same for commercial waste contracts with printers, shopping centres, retailers, distributors etc. Most of it goes abroad - China/Asia/EU so FX & Shipping prices are a factor too (S Korea's biggest container line went bust this month). If he wants to stick it in a hole in the ground: a) we haven't got many left b) no one wants them anyway - rightly I should add c) it will cost him £100++ a tonne. Corners can get cut: the end result can be fire/injury/accident: much the same as any other manufacturing industry. There are hundreds, if not thousands of these sites around the UK: most of them run by professional, large, accredited, licenced, inspected, audited, insured companies....some not.

[V8mate]

CardinalFang said:

Short answer is mainly accidental & some fraud, I think.

I think you got that the wrong way round. Look back through this thread and identify how many times a public sector facility - invariably operated by a private sector company - has appeared.

Weird that it's only private sector operators in these pages? And predominantly small ones with less PR risk too.

[Digga]

V8mate said:

I think you got that the wrong way round. Look back through this thread and identify how many times a public sector facility - invariably operated by a private sector company - has appeared.

Weird that it's only private sector operators in these pages? And predominantly small ones with less PR risk too.

^This. Follow the money.