Yet another... recycling plant fire

[Andy 308GTB]

V8mate said:

Andy 308GTB said:

Excuse my ignorance but what would trigger the ignition of one of these batteries?
And is any size of battery a hazard - i.e. a mobile phone battery, which I would consider to be small, could start these fires?
The one in your photo is a pack from a drill which isn't huge but would have quite a large capacity.

These rechargeable cells - yes, including modern mobile phone batteries - contain highly flammable electrolytes.

Anything that short circuits or in any way damages the cell leaves the electrolytes open to what is known as thermal runaway. Being crushed in the back of a dustcart, coming into contact with other liquids, being dumped and then scooped again for reloading, are all risk points.

Outside of the controlled battery environment, these will burn at c.200°C.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

[alangla]

Silly question, but to correctly dispose of one of these, would you have to take it to the car battery recycling area in your local council place or is it reasonable to deposit it in a supermarket battery recycling bin? Most of the ones I've seen in shops etc seem to be set up to deal primarily with D cell or smaller type batteries.

Personally, I don't think I've ever actually thrown one away - generally any old phones are sent off with the batteries inside to one of the mobile recycling/re-use firms.

[Gooose]

I lowered a 5 ton pump onto a dewalt 5amp battery by mistake in work once, the battery didn’t half pump out some flames. I do wonder if disposing of these needs a bit more awareness!

[MartG]

Gooose said:

I do wonder if disposing of these needs a bit more awareness!

They and their packaging are usually plastered with messages saying 'do not dispose of in general waste' and 'recycle', but the great British public rarely take notice Even the logos which are placed there for those with reading or language issues are ignored.

[Evanivitch]

alangla said:

Silly question, but to correctly dispose of one of these, would you have to take it to the car battery recycling area in your local council place or is it reasonable to deposit it in a supermarket battery recycling bin? Most of the ones I've seen in shops etc seem to be set up to deal primarily with D cell or smaller type batteries.

Personally, I don't think I've ever actually thrown one away - generally any old phones are sent off with the batteries inside to one of the mobile recycling/re-use firms.

If battery is in good condition, put it in public collection bin or some councils even collect with recycling (just put them in a sandwich bag). If it's suspect, consider taking it to council recycling site and they'll probably tell you to chuck it in the fire-proof box...

[alangla]

Evanivitch said:

alangla said:

Silly question, but to correctly dispose of one of these, would you have to take it to the car battery recycling area in your local council place or is it reasonable to deposit it in a supermarket battery recycling bin? Most of the ones I've seen in shops etc seem to be set up to deal primarily with D cell or smaller type batteries.

Personally, I don't think I've ever actually thrown one away - generally any old phones are sent off with the batteries inside to one of the mobile recycling/re-use firms.

If battery is in good condition, put it in public collection bin or some councils even collect with recycling (just put them in a sandwich bag). If it's suspect, consider taking it to council recycling site and they'll probably tell you to chuck it in the fire-proof box...

I'm laughing at "fire proof box" - at my local recycling centre, if I remember correctly, the car batteries go in a giant plastic box. It definitely doesn't look very fire proof. It's well away from everything else at least.

[Gooose]

MartG said:

Gooose said:

I do wonder if disposing of these needs a bit more awareness!

They and their packaging are usually plastered with messages saying 'do not dispose of in general waste' and 'recycle', but the great British public rarely take notice Even the logos which are placed there for those with reading or language issues are ignored.

I think that goes for every label and warnings I’ve ever seen, people just don’t care, I think an odd social media / tv advert wouldn’t go amiss, no idea if it would help at all mind!

[Evanivitch]

alangla said:

I'm laughing at "fire proof box" - at my local recycling centre, if I remember correctly, the car batteries go in a giant plastic box. It definitely doesn't look very fire proof. It's well away from everything else at least.

I say "proof" in the loosest of terms. It's definitely metallic and substantial with a weighty lid.

But it's also 3m away from the oil disposal point...

[alangla]

Evanivitch said:

I say "proof" in the loosest of terms. It's definitely metallic and substantial with a weighty lid.

But it's also 3m away from the oil disposal point...

Pretty sure it's more than 3m away from the oil & paint disposal cabinets (and anything else for that matter). I noticed last time I was in that the giant plastic oil can (yep, the oil disposal point was styled as a plastic oil can!) had been replaced with a metal container. The paints all seem to be kept in steel boxes as well.

[giveitfish]

alangla said:

Silly question, but to correctly dispose of one of these, would you have to take it to the car battery recycling area in your local council place or is it reasonable to deposit it in a supermarket battery recycling bin? Most of the ones I've seen in shops etc seem to be set up to deal primarily with D cell or smaller type batteries.

If the battery is undamaged then the Supermarket battery collection point is fine.

It's the waste processor who takes most of the risk - moving the things about, piling them up and sorting them are all potential causes of ignition. The damn things seem to like lying dormant for ages and then decide to catch fire when you're not looking. Small fires every few months are almost routine and insurance is getting hard to come by for waste processors.

I find this thread really frustrating in many ways. On the one hand there is certainly an underbelly of recyclers who have no intention of safely processing waste and are happy to have a nice big fire, declare bankruptcy and then move on to the next site. The EA being gutted by underfunding is making this easier and easier.

On the other hand, responsible recyclers can spend hundreds of thousands on waste segregation, fire detection and supression etc etc and still have whole sites taken out by a single rogue Li-ion short circuit.

As an aside, and despite driving a Tesla, it would make me think twice about living or working in a building with an underground car park full of electric cars in 10 years time when many are old and not necessarily in tip-top condition. Sprinklers designed for petrol cars would do nothing against a large battery fire.

[giveitfish]

Just an illustration of the risks -

2010 - Viridor invests £9M in a state-of-the-art plant for recycling waste electrical items ( https://www.recyclingtoday.com/article/viridor-mew... )
2015 - Plant wins prestigious certification for fridge recycling
2018 - Plant used as an example to the industry of how it should be done
2019 - Plant suffers "Huge recycling centre blaze 'most likely caused by batteries'" ( https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/17458097.huge-... )
2020 - Plant closed

It's not easy.

Edited by giveitfish on Wednesday 20th October 13:26

[saaby93]

giveitfish said:

Just an illustration of the risks -

2010 - Viridor invests £9M in a state-of-the-art plant for recycling waste electrical items ( https://www.recyclingtoday.com/article/viridor-mew... )
2015 - Plant wins prestigious certification for fridge recycling
2018 - Plant used as an example to the industry of how it should be done
2019 - Plant suffers "Huge recycling centre blaze 'most likely caused by batteries'" ( https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/17458097.huge-... )
2020 - Plant closed

It's not easy.

Was it profitable in those 10 years before the fire removed all the spare recycling?

[giveitfish]

Really? Viridor as a company is worth £4B but you think they'd set fire to a bunch of electrical waste to save a few quid?

Even though what you end up with instead of saleable metals etc is a twisted mess, a flooded and damaged site and an EA investigation?

[anonymous-user]

500 tons of plastic and other mixed waste on fire in Cumbria:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-5921...

[jimothyc]

And yet another. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-59...

This time Devizes in Wiltshire.

Mobile phone batteries? Or the easiest way to get rid of unsorted recycling.

[saaby93]

Metal recycling?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10250139/...

[Fundoreen]

What a world we live in. If we recycle they get fed up looking at it piling up and burn it to the ground.
Obviously spreading the rubbish around the world has got expensive since the containers have been hard and expensive to come by.
The rest of the world breaths a sigh of relief.

[saaby93]

Coventry
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-war...

[Evanivitch]

This thread is a wonderful niche in the PH world

[saaby93]

Have we had this one already?
Luckily it happened while everyone was on holiday

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59846610