War with Russia
Discussion
Cobnapint said:
scherzkeks said:
frankenstein12 said:
Very. The US is there illegally. They are firing missiles into Syria illegally.
Careful, you're sure to be insulted for that tidbit of truth! 
Putin is unconditionally supporting not just a dictator, but the action that that dictator has just carried out. There has been no condemnation, just an immediate quote produced from the Kremlin's random lie generator, which by now must be about b
ksed after overheating during the period when Putin 'didn't' have any troops in Crimea or assist in anyway whatsoever in the shooting down of a Malaysian airliner.The legal route is of course via the UN, but that is useless when you have permanent members on the SC who refuse to distinguish between right and wrong.
You like everyone else conveniently choose to ignore that it was Turkey who verified it was sarin gas. Turkey have been desperate to get rid of Assad for years. Turkey and more importantly its leadership were connected to buying oil from Isis oil fields in Syria.
You like everyone else conveniently choose to ignore that every time there is an atrocious chemical weapons attack apparently by Assad that gets everyone up in arms it is done at the worst possible moment for Assad.
A previous attack that was internationally blamed on Assad and condemned was carried out at the same time he was handing over his chemical weapons and had international chem weapons specialists near the area the attack took place.
Now this latest one when he had absolutely no reason at all to use chemical weapons.
I don't get how people like yourself don't find any of this at all suspect like someone winning the lottery 5 times in a row.
Way too coincidental.
Edited by frankenstein12 on Tuesday 11th April 10:02
loafer123 said:
The obvious next US move is therefore special forces. Russia has nothing material on the ground, and Assad would crap himself.
The US / UK / Israel and probably France, already have special ops / advisers on the ground - assisting the allegedly `moderate rebels`. But putting uniformed troops in Syria is a different proposition entirely, they would be targets for all manner of entities already operating in country - Hezbollah, the SAA, Iranian backed militias to name a few. It would make deployment to Afghanistan look like summer camp.The average foot soldier on the rebel side does not know or need to know that he is fighting for uncle sam, However if US troops are put on the ground in meaningful numbers, his dream of fighting for an Islamic Caliphate will be in ruins. He will either go home, or more likely turn his weapon on the freshly arrived western troops. Russia know this, and their aim is not to `win` anything in Syria. All they have to do is deny the west / Israel & Sunni factions a `win`.
The current tragedy in Syria has been planned for decades. It is just a piece on `the grand chessboard` albeit a very strategic one. The Russians are well aware of this, and so far they are playing a good hand. If tensions ratchet even further the Chinese will need to get off the fence, they have a very big incentive to prevent the eastern spread of militarized Islamic radicalism. Will they be distracted by events closer to home? North Korea, the disputed islands in the SC sea? it does look as if that could be the plan.
All the actors in this game of geopolitical chess, empire building, power projection and resource accumulation share some things in common, none of which are admirable. The citizens of the disputed territory always have their lives destroyed and the taxpayers of all the nations involved in the proxy engagement are never told the truth.
p1stonhead said:
I love the people thinking that either the US or Russia actually care even remotely enough about Syria to end the world over it 
You are thinking way way too small.This isnt about Syria. This is about a much bigger game between the US who still think they are in the middle of the cold war and Russia.
The US has been constantly poking the Russian bear for years now and the Russians are getting very tired of it. The US have repeatedly made accusations against the Russians. They have imposed illegal sanctions on the Russians.
If it kicks off it wont be because of Syria it will be because the US is out of touch with reality.
frankenstein12 said:
p1stonhead said:
I love the people thinking that either the US or Russia actually care even remotely enough about Syria to end the world over it
You are thinking way way too small.This isnt about Syria. This is about a much bigger game between the US who still think they are in the middle of the cold war and Russia.
The US has been constantly poking the Russian bear for years now and the Russians are getting very tired of it. The US have repeatedly made accusations against the Russians. They have imposed illegal sanctions on the Russians.
If it kicks off it wont be because of Syria it will be because the US is out of touch with reality.
Overall what I meant is that I cant see either of them care enough about anything to risk destroying the world over.
No one wins in the scenario so they will do anything to avoid it, they are not silly.
They do love to shout though dont they! Its frankly boring and pathetic from the both of them.
frankenstein12 said:
Actually Cob yet again you like all others condemning Assad and Russia yet again are taking it as gospel that Assad used sarin gas.
You like everyone else conveniently choose to ignore that it was Turkey who verified it was sarin gas. Turkey have been desperate to get rid of Assad for years. Turkey and more importantly its leadership were connected to buying oil from Isis oil fields in Syria.
You like everyone else conveniently choose to ignore that every time there is an atrocious chemical weapons attack apparently by Assad that gets everyone up in arms it is done at the worst possible moment for Assad.
A previous attack that was internationally blamed on Assad and condemned was carried out at the same time he was handing over his chemical weapons and had international chem weapons specialists near the area the attack took place.
Now this latest one when he had absolutely no reason at all to use chemical weapons.
I don't get how people like yourself don't find any of this at all suspect like someone winning the lottery 5 times in a row.
Way too coincidental.
So despite all the eyewitness reports and footage, because Turkey said Sarin was used - you are saying Sarin 'wasn't' used.You like everyone else conveniently choose to ignore that it was Turkey who verified it was sarin gas. Turkey have been desperate to get rid of Assad for years. Turkey and more importantly its leadership were connected to buying oil from Isis oil fields in Syria.
You like everyone else conveniently choose to ignore that every time there is an atrocious chemical weapons attack apparently by Assad that gets everyone up in arms it is done at the worst possible moment for Assad.
A previous attack that was internationally blamed on Assad and condemned was carried out at the same time he was handing over his chemical weapons and had international chem weapons specialists near the area the attack took place.
Now this latest one when he had absolutely no reason at all to use chemical weapons.
I don't get how people like yourself don't find any of this at all suspect like someone winning the lottery 5 times in a row.
Way too coincidental.
p1stonhead said:
frankenstein12 said:
p1stonhead said:
I love the people thinking that either the US or Russia actually care even remotely enough about Syria to end the world over it
You are thinking way way too small.This isnt about Syria. This is about a much bigger game between the US who still think they are in the middle of the cold war and Russia.
The US has been constantly poking the Russian bear for years now and the Russians are getting very tired of it. The US have repeatedly made accusations against the Russians. They have imposed illegal sanctions on the Russians.
If it kicks off it wont be because of Syria it will be because the US is out of touch with reality.
Overall what I meant is that I cant see either of them care enough about anything to risk destroying the world over.
No one wins in the scenario so they will do anything to avoid it, they are not silly.
They do love to shout though dont they! Its frankly boring and pathetic from the both of them.
What I fully expect the Russians to do is to set up their air defence system in Syria and shoot down missiles fired by the US.
A multitude of reasons exist for doing so. The Russians could then set up a no fly zone over Syria. They have already shut down communications with the US.
Also if they work as the Russians claim and the Russians shoot down US missiles it will be a very significant warning to the Americans that Russia is no longer playing games and is very well armed and equipped to defend themselves and their allies/interests.
Cobnapint said:
frankenstein12 said:
Actually Cob yet again you like all others condemning Assad and Russia yet again are taking it as gospel that Assad used sarin gas.
You like everyone else conveniently choose to ignore that it was Turkey who verified it was sarin gas. Turkey have been desperate to get rid of Assad for years. Turkey and more importantly its leadership were connected to buying oil from Isis oil fields in Syria.
You like everyone else conveniently choose to ignore that every time there is an atrocious chemical weapons attack apparently by Assad that gets everyone up in arms it is done at the worst possible moment for Assad.
A previous attack that was internationally blamed on Assad and condemned was carried out at the same time he was handing over his chemical weapons and had international chem weapons specialists near the area the attack took place.
Now this latest one when he had absolutely no reason at all to use chemical weapons.
I don't get how people like yourself don't find any of this at all suspect like someone winning the lottery 5 times in a row.
Way too coincidental.
So despite all the eyewitness reports and footage, because Turkey said Sarin was used - you are saying Sarin 'wasn't' used.You like everyone else conveniently choose to ignore that it was Turkey who verified it was sarin gas. Turkey have been desperate to get rid of Assad for years. Turkey and more importantly its leadership were connected to buying oil from Isis oil fields in Syria.
You like everyone else conveniently choose to ignore that every time there is an atrocious chemical weapons attack apparently by Assad that gets everyone up in arms it is done at the worst possible moment for Assad.
A previous attack that was internationally blamed on Assad and condemned was carried out at the same time he was handing over his chemical weapons and had international chem weapons specialists near the area the attack took place.
Now this latest one when he had absolutely no reason at all to use chemical weapons.
I don't get how people like yourself don't find any of this at all suspect like someone winning the lottery 5 times in a row.
Way too coincidental.
Video footage that could as has been done before faked (not the deaths and injuries per se but the scene).
It is also worth note that Sarin gas is not the only chemical weapon that gives the sort of results seen.
It is further worth note that the rebels/terrorists are on footage bragging about capturing a chemical weapons store within syria. It is therefore NOT inconceivable that this is a false flag.
Lets be very clear yet again. I dont believe in any way Assad is a saint. What i do know is that the so called rebels and terrorists are known for abject barbarity towards innocent woman, children and civilians overall and in no way hold their lives to any value other than propaganda regardless of what many would like to believe.
Assad on the other hand does come across as someone who cares about the wellbeing of his civilians. He does not send his soldiers out to rape and murder civilians at random.
Its not Assads forces you see cutting heads off 12 year old boys or raping little girls. That is exclusively the preserve of the rebels/terrorists.
the tinfoil is very thick in this thread
the russians at most will try to shoot down any septic tomahawks they wont be launching anything at septic or allied ships.
and that is easy for the yanks to defeat just as in the last attack on the airfield they will just swarm any target overwhelming any air defence
the russians at most will try to shoot down any septic tomahawks they wont be launching anything at septic or allied ships.
and that is easy for the yanks to defeat just as in the last attack on the airfield they will just swarm any target overwhelming any air defence
frankenstein12 said:
Russia have invested a huge amount of time and money into trying to assist Assad in getting rid of Isis with the US doing everything they could to undermine Assad and Russias efforts.
The US has been bombing Isis in Syria in cooperation with the Russians. That is hardly "undermining" Assad and Russia's efforts with regards to Isis.Russia has also spent a great deal of time attacking Assad's domestic opponents who also oppose Isis . Indeed initially these were the only people Russia attacked, because their intent was to remove the moderate opposition so that the conflict would become reduced to Isis versus Assad.
But don't let this get in the way of your ramblings.
frankenstein12 said:
Assad on the other hand does come across as someone who cares about the wellbeing of his civilians.
By barrel bombing them from helicopters, for example?If you really believe the stuff you post, you have allowed yourself to be fooled by an awful lot of paper thin propaganda.
Just FYI the Russian S500 can apparently engage ten targets at a time at a speed response of around 4-5 seconds.
They may not be able to shoot down every missile launched by the US is the US chooses to fling 60 odd missiles but they could give it a pretty good go.
It would be in effect a proxy declaration by the US against the Russians however. They have stated the US is not to attempt to target the Assad regime again or they will respond. If America starts firing missiles and the Russians start shooting them down then things could get very uncomfortable very quickly.
They may not be able to shoot down every missile launched by the US is the US chooses to fling 60 odd missiles but they could give it a pretty good go.
It would be in effect a proxy declaration by the US against the Russians however. They have stated the US is not to attempt to target the Assad regime again or they will respond. If America starts firing missiles and the Russians start shooting them down then things could get very uncomfortable very quickly.
frankenstein12 said:
Dribble
Following your logic then, it's quite possible the Tomahawk attack on the Syrian airfield was a false flag too. Old footage of cruise missiles leaving naval vessels in the dark - pictures of damaged aircraft bunkers - smoking debris. Could have been anywhere!Cobnapint said:
frankenstein12 said:
Dribble
Following your logic then, it's quite possible the Tomahawk attack on the Syrian airfield was a false flag too. Old footage of cruise missiles leaving naval vessels in the dark - pictures of damaged aircraft bunkers - smoking debris. Could have been anywhere!There is no actual evidence of any of the crimes Assad is accused of other than from dubious sources (Turkey) . Assad has denied his involvement. The Russians have denied his involvement.
Nobody truly knows what happened.
ATG said:
frankenstein12 said:
Russia have invested a huge amount of time and money into trying to assist Assad in getting rid of Isis with the US doing everything they could to undermine Assad and Russias efforts.
The US has been bombing Isis in Syria in cooperation with the Russians. That is hardly "undermining" Assad and Russia's efforts with regards to Isis.Russia has also spent a great deal of time attacking Assad's domestic opponents who also oppose Isis . Indeed initially these were the only people Russia attacked, because their intent was to remove the moderate opposition so that the conflict would become reduced to Isis versus Assad.
But don't let this get in the way of your ramblings.
Likewise the US did not put any real effort into taking on Isis until Russia got involved. The US knew just like Russia and everyone else about the Oil wells being mined and the illegal oil being sold through Turkey and Iraq. They knew which oil fields and knew the convoy routes.
It took Russia bombing the oil routes and refineries to get the US involved and start doing the same as funny enough it does not look good if the nasty old Russians are actively targeting Isis biggest revenue stream when the US could have but wasnt.
The US have stated their intent was to use Isis and the rebels to overthrow Assad and then put in place a transitional government. This is not a secret. Unfortunately they did not anticipate how big isis would get or how uncontrollable they would be.
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