Malaysia Airlines Plane "Loses Contact"
Discussion
matrignano said:
Is a modern airliner totally unrecoverable from a stall situation?
The question is a lot more complex.There are different types of stall that can all happen in different parts of the flight envelope. However, there are areas of the flight envelope where recovery becomes more and more difficult.
There is also the question of whether flight simulators correctly perform in all the areas of stalling, especially high altitude stalls.
You get to the top end of the flight envelope and the first task is to identify whether you are dealing with high speed or low speed buffet. You may not get a second guess if you id it wrongly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVt6LiDbLos
Stall techniques on airliners.
TTmonkey said:
hmmm, how far geographically is this crash from where the Malaysia plane was reported to have 'climbed fast to an altitude that it wasn't supposed to be able to get to'.....?
Anyone think they should perhaps be looking again at the sea bed near where it was first lost from radar contact?
The worlds biggest tin foil hat couldn't link the two together because there is no link.Anyone think they should perhaps be looking again at the sea bed near where it was first lost from radar contact?
Vipers said:
Would be a good job to get onto! (Emotions aside)Sorry if this has already been posted.
BBC documentary interviewing spokesman from Cranfield University where they train air crash investigators debunked the Russiam statement that it was bullets from a Ukrainian fighter jet that shot down MH17.
Shows a piece of wreckage with comparison if bullet hole against missile damage. Bullet hole is clean while missile is not - and MH17 shot down by missile.
Phil
BBC documentary interviewing spokesman from Cranfield University where they train air crash investigators debunked the Russiam statement that it was bullets from a Ukrainian fighter jet that shot down MH17.
Shows a piece of wreckage with comparison if bullet hole against missile damage. Bullet hole is clean while missile is not - and MH17 shot down by missile.
Phil
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/01/us-malay...
(Reuters) - The search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 cannot go on forever, Australia's deputy prime minister said, and discussions are already under way between Australia, China and Malaysia as to whether to call off the hunt within weeks. (...)
The search of a rugged 60,000 sq km (23,000 sq mile) patch of sea floor some 1,600 km (1,000 miles) west of the Australian city of Perth, which experts believe is the plane's most likely resting place, will likely be finished by May.
Australian Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss told Reuters that a decision would have to be taken well before then as to whether to continue into the vast 1.1 million sq km area around the primary search zone if nothing has been found.
Discussions had already begun about what to do in that event, including the possibility that the search might be called off, said Truss, who is also transport minister.
(Reuters) - The search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 cannot go on forever, Australia's deputy prime minister said, and discussions are already under way between Australia, China and Malaysia as to whether to call off the hunt within weeks. (...)
The search of a rugged 60,000 sq km (23,000 sq mile) patch of sea floor some 1,600 km (1,000 miles) west of the Australian city of Perth, which experts believe is the plane's most likely resting place, will likely be finished by May.
Australian Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss told Reuters that a decision would have to be taken well before then as to whether to continue into the vast 1.1 million sq km area around the primary search zone if nothing has been found.
Discussions had already begun about what to do in that event, including the possibility that the search might be called off, said Truss, who is also transport minister.
AreOut said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/01/us-malay...
(Reuters) - The search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 cannot go on forever, Australia's deputy prime minister said, and discussions are already under way between Australia, China and Malaysia as to whether to call off the hunt within weeks. (...)
The search of a rugged 60,000 sq km (23,000 sq mile) patch of sea floor some 1,600 km (1,000 miles) west of the Australian city of Perth, which experts believe is the plane's most likely resting place, will likely be finished by May.
Australian Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss told Reuters that a decision would have to be taken well before then as to whether to continue into the vast 1.1 million sq km area around the primary search zone if nothing has been found.
Discussions had already begun about what to do in that event, including the possibility that the search might be called off, said Truss, who is also transport minister.
Curioser and curiouser saud, Alice.(Reuters) - The search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 cannot go on forever, Australia's deputy prime minister said, and discussions are already under way between Australia, China and Malaysia as to whether to call off the hunt within weeks. (...)
The search of a rugged 60,000 sq km (23,000 sq mile) patch of sea floor some 1,600 km (1,000 miles) west of the Australian city of Perth, which experts believe is the plane's most likely resting place, will likely be finished by May.
Australian Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss told Reuters that a decision would have to be taken well before then as to whether to continue into the vast 1.1 million sq km area around the primary search zone if nothing has been found.
Discussions had already begun about what to do in that event, including the possibility that the search might be called off, said Truss, who is also transport minister.
It really does beg the questions as to how a plane of this size can disappear apparently without trace. Are they looking anywhere near the right spot? Why were there apparently definite pings heard by more than one searching vessel? All very odd and I really do wonder what the truth is in this conundrum. We may of course not know for some time.
Steffan said:
AreOut said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/01/us-malay...
(Reuters) - The search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 cannot go on forever, Australia's deputy prime minister said, and discussions are already under way between Australia, China and Malaysia as to whether to call off the hunt within weeks. (...)
The search of a rugged 60,000 sq km (23,000 sq mile) patch of sea floor some 1,600 km (1,000 miles) west of the Australian city of Perth, which experts believe is the plane's most likely resting place, will likely be finished by May.
Australian Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss told Reuters that a decision would have to be taken well before then as to whether to continue into the vast 1.1 million sq km area around the primary search zone if nothing has been found.
Discussions had already begun about what to do in that event, including the possibility that the search might be called off, said Truss, who is also transport minister.
Curioser and curiouser saud, Alice.(Reuters) - The search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 cannot go on forever, Australia's deputy prime minister said, and discussions are already under way between Australia, China and Malaysia as to whether to call off the hunt within weeks. (...)
The search of a rugged 60,000 sq km (23,000 sq mile) patch of sea floor some 1,600 km (1,000 miles) west of the Australian city of Perth, which experts believe is the plane's most likely resting place, will likely be finished by May.
Australian Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss told Reuters that a decision would have to be taken well before then as to whether to continue into the vast 1.1 million sq km area around the primary search zone if nothing has been found.
Discussions had already begun about what to do in that event, including the possibility that the search might be called off, said Truss, who is also transport minister.
It really does beg the questions as to how a plane of this size can disappear apparently without trace. Are they looking anywhere near the right spot? Why were there apparently definite pings heard by more than one searching vessel? All very odd and I really do wonder what the truth is in this conundrum. We may of course not know for some time.
Isn't it a bit soon to start calling off the search?
The wreckage of AF447 took nearly two years to be found, despite there being some floating debris and the area where it went down was more or less known. This must have always been known to be long, tough and slow process in the hostile environment of the Southern Ocean, with no guarantee of success.
Vaud said:
Steffan said:
It really does beg the questions as to how a plane of this size can disappear apparently without trace.
Tiny plane, massive ocean that is very, very deep.Assuming the plane is intact, and you draw a box around it's largest dimensions, it has an area of 0.00388km2. Or 0.0000000053%.
That brings a whole new meaning to needle in haystack...
Then factor in the plane will not be in one piece, but almost certainly broken into many, many smaller pieces on impact, the likely hood of finding it is so remote it doesn't compute.
Megaflow said:
Then factor in the plane will not be in one piece, but almost certainly broken into many, many smaller pieces on impact, the likely hood of finding it is so remote it doesn't compute.
You would expect that there would be lots of plastic and honeycomb parts that would float for a long time. Lifejackets in packets, seat cushions and that sort of thing too. And yet after all this time there isn't a single credible report of anything being found at sea or washed up on a beach thousands of miles away. I find that nearly as odd as any of the other tinfoil-hatter explanations.-crookedtail- said:
If at all.
Isn't it a bit soon to start calling off the search?
The wreckage of AF447 took nearly two years to be found, despite there being some floating debris and the area where it went down was more or less known. This must have always been known to be long, tough and slow process in the hostile environment of the Southern Ocean, with no guarantee of success.
But who pays? 2 years search in a known 'small' area for AF447 could be extrapolated easily to 20 years in the Indian Ocean, maybe 200 years?Isn't it a bit soon to start calling off the search?
The wreckage of AF447 took nearly two years to be found, despite there being some floating debris and the area where it went down was more or less known. This must have always been known to be long, tough and slow process in the hostile environment of the Southern Ocean, with no guarantee of success.
Will whatever is learnt be worth whatever it costs? What if after x10 more cost it still isn't found?
karma mechanic said:
You would expect that there would be lots of plastic and honeycomb parts that would float for a long time. Lifejackets in packets, seat cushions and that sort of thing too. And yet after all this time there isn't a single credible report of anything being found at sea or washed up on a beach thousands of miles away. I find that nearly as odd as any of the other tinfoil-hatter explanations.
Yeah but no but...Thing is, for me, I do not know if this is to be expected if the plane is lost in a particular place. The southern oceans are quite nasty as I understand it. So I would expect that I do not know what is the norm. That is to say I could not say "I expect debris to be found". Maybe in the channel off Dover or well used shipping lanes or places where I expect the ocean to wash up on a beach. But even the latter, how long before a beach is found and that beach has a visiter to witness the item?
And that is assuming there are parts that will do this in the place it is and the tides play ball.
SpeckledJim said:
-crookedtail- said:
If at all.
Isn't it a bit soon to start calling off the search?
The wreckage of AF447 took nearly two years to be found, despite there being some floating debris and the area where it went down was more or less known. This must have always been known to be long, tough and slow process in the hostile environment of the Southern Ocean, with no guarantee of success.
But who pays? 2 years search in a known 'small' area for AF447 could be extrapolated easily to 20 years in the Indian Ocean, maybe 200 years?Isn't it a bit soon to start calling off the search?
The wreckage of AF447 took nearly two years to be found, despite there being some floating debris and the area where it went down was more or less known. This must have always been known to be long, tough and slow process in the hostile environment of the Southern Ocean, with no guarantee of success.
Will whatever is learnt be worth whatever it costs? What if after x10 more cost it still isn't found?
12+ months after the Japanese Tsunami a 70m long fishing vessel was found adrift in the Pacific ocean. It was on the surface, not at the bottom of the ocean. It was as big as the Boeing, probably would have returned a much larger radar/sonar signature. And was on the surface. And wasn't smashed into 80 million bits. And it crossed numerous shipping lanes. And it would have drifted across many miles of highly monitored waters.
Just goes to show.
Just goes to show.
hidetheelephants said:
If nothing else it's about time there was a concerted world effort to map and explore the deeper oceans; they supply a huge percentage of our food yet we know less about parts of them than we do about the solar system. If such a survey found MH370 it would be a welcome bonus.
+1 on this, if it had crashed on the dark/far side of the moon it would have probably been found ages ago...TTmonkey said:
12+ months after the Japanese Tsunami a 70m long fishing vessel was found adrift in the Pacific ocean. It was on the surface, not at the bottom of the ocean. It was as big as the Boeing, probably would have returned a much larger radar/sonar signature. And was on the surface. And wasn't smashed into 80 million bits. And it crossed numerous shipping lanes. And it would have drifted across many miles of highly monitored waters.
Just goes to show.
Indeed, a big floaty thing is much easier to spot than a little sunken thing & yet no-one saw it.Just goes to show.
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