Meanwhile in Turkey
Discussion
Digga said:
The trouble with what the Troika did to Greece was that much of it was guaranteed to push the country further into recession and, therefore, further away from being able to sustain public and private levels of debt. Sure, profligacy is not to be encouraged, but you can't shut the stable door after the horse has bolted.
They weren't trying to help Greece. They were bailing out (predominantly German) banks. Some ~95% of 'aid' they received went straight back out of Greece to those banks.4x4Tyke said:
A very bloody military coup, the chances that US and NATO will be prepared to stand by and let it happen have to be increasing, a paper thin excuse is probably all that is required call it an internal matter and to turn a blind eye.
That's been nipped in the bud I'm afraid. Erdogan was well aware of the dangers of a military coup as they have happened before in Turkey's history so he was already carrying out a purge of the military and the "attempted coupe" last year was all the excuse he needed to widen that even further. He's replaced large parts of the military hierarchy, thrown loads of top military brass in jail and replaced them with his own cronies.A military coup is all but impossible at this point.
What's worse is the military was the last brick, he'd already done similar with all the other organisations who might have possibly opposed him by replacing thousands of police, judges, lawyers, media personnel and even teachers. He now effectively controls the military, the police, the law, the media and even the education system. It has become nigh on impossible for anyone to oppose him now unless the 50% of the population who don't like him have a civil uprising but all the elements firmly under his control, how do normal citizens fight against tanks and machine guns? It's a dictatorship in all but name now, thousands are already fleeing the country.
This economic meltdown is the last throw of the dice, if this doesn't oust him nothing will.
Guvernator said:
4x4Tyke said:
A very bloody military coup, the chances that US and NATO will be prepared to stand by and let it happen have to be increasing, a paper thin excuse is probably all that is required call it an internal matter and to turn a blind eye.
That's been nipped in the bud I'm afraid. Erdogan was well aware of the dangers of a military coup as they have happened before in Turkey's history so he was already carrying out a purge of the military and the "attempted coupe" last year was all the excuse he needed to widen that even further. He's replaced large parts of the military hierarchy, thrown loads of top military brass in jail and replaced them with his own cronies.A military coup is all but impossible at this point.
What's worse is the military was the last brick, he'd already done similar with all the other organisations who might have possibly opposed him by replacing thousands of police, judges, lawyers, media personnel and even teachers. He now effectively controls the military, the police, the law, the media and even the education system. It has become nigh on impossible for anyone to oppose him now unless the 50% of the population who don't like him have a civil uprising but all the elements firmly under his control, how do normal citizens fight against tanks and machine guns? It's a dictatorship in all but name now, thousands are already fleeing the country.
This economic meltdown is the last throw of the dice, if this doesn't oust him nothing will.
Yes, he's purged heavily, however mental flexibility will be far more pervasive in those roles you mention. I can see many people playing along with the prevailing wind waiting their chance. I do not see how he is going to be able to place his loyalists right through the ranks, particularly in the high skill disciplines needed to pull off a coup, combined arms, manning aircraft, directing artillery, armoured vehicles. I can't really say how likely it is, but I'd suspect it is becoming more likely not less, because of his actions. Any meltdown would see the bulk of those higher quality forces against him, not for him.
Just my humble opinion.
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Tuesday 14th August 09:26
amusingduck said:
Digga said:
The trouble with what the Troika did to Greece was that much of it was guaranteed to push the country further into recession and, therefore, further away from being able to sustain public and private levels of debt. Sure, profligacy is not to be encouraged, but you can't shut the stable door after the horse has bolted.
They weren't trying to help Greece. They were bailing out (predominantly German) banks. Some ~95% of 'aid' they received went straight back out of Greece to those banks.Germany to the rescue?
“Germany is examining possible ways to help Turkey avoid economic meltdown without offering emergency financial aid, a government official said.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-28...
“ISTANBUL—The German government is considering providing emergency financial assistance to Turkey as concerns grow in Berlin that a full-blown economic crisis could destabilize the region, German and European officials said.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-turkey-teeters-ger...
“Germany is examining possible ways to help Turkey avoid economic meltdown without offering emergency financial aid, a government official said.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-28...
“ISTANBUL—The German government is considering providing emergency financial assistance to Turkey as concerns grow in Berlin that a full-blown economic crisis could destabilize the region, German and European officials said.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-turkey-teeters-ger...
BlackLabel said:
Germany to the rescue?
“Germany is examining possible ways to help Turkey avoid economic meltdown without offering emergency financial aid, a government official said.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-28...
“ISTANBUL—The German government is considering providing emergency financial assistance to Turkey as concerns grow in Berlin that a full-blown economic crisis could destabilize the region, German and European officials said.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-turkey-teeters-ger...
Having conquered the Western Front they now turn their attention to the Eastern. “Germany is examining possible ways to help Turkey avoid economic meltdown without offering emergency financial aid, a government official said.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-28...
“ISTANBUL—The German government is considering providing emergency financial assistance to Turkey as concerns grow in Berlin that a full-blown economic crisis could destabilize the region, German and European officials said.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-turkey-teeters-ger...
I used to go to Istanbul quite regularly. It was a great place, mixing the metropolitan vibe of a big European city with the fantastic history and culture of the many civilisations who have lived there throughout history.
However we went there last year and it has totally changed. Burka's are now in abundance everywhere, alcohol is no longer served in many places and my wife was stared, tutted and sneared at several times for daring to wear shorts and sleeveless tops in 35 degree heat when she has never had this on previous visits. At one point when she was on her own, she actually had two burka clad women verbally abuse her. You can literally see and feel the change that Erdogan's regime has brought about, the whole atmosphere now feels oppressive. What is worse is that there are loads of women who seem to be actively backing this regime change that will effectively turn them into second class citizens, surely that is like Turkey's voting for Christmas? (no pun intended). We won't be going back there in a hurry.
My sister who has lived there for years is seriously considering upping sticks and moving back to England with her family.
The only places that still feel like the Turkey I previously remember are the west coast tourist towns but how long that will last I don't know.
However we went there last year and it has totally changed. Burka's are now in abundance everywhere, alcohol is no longer served in many places and my wife was stared, tutted and sneared at several times for daring to wear shorts and sleeveless tops in 35 degree heat when she has never had this on previous visits. At one point when she was on her own, she actually had two burka clad women verbally abuse her. You can literally see and feel the change that Erdogan's regime has brought about, the whole atmosphere now feels oppressive. What is worse is that there are loads of women who seem to be actively backing this regime change that will effectively turn them into second class citizens, surely that is like Turkey's voting for Christmas? (no pun intended). We won't be going back there in a hurry.
My sister who has lived there for years is seriously considering upping sticks and moving back to England with her family.
The only places that still feel like the Turkey I previously remember are the west coast tourist towns but how long that will last I don't know.
Not been an update on this for a while but Turkey have just held local elections and some of the results have been a surprising blow for Erdogan and his AKP party as they have lost both Ankara the Capital and Istanbul. Is this the beginning of the end for Erdogan's reign?
Hilariously they are accusing the opposition party, CHP of vote rigging when in every previous election, it's Erdogan's party that have always had this cloud over their heads. The votes are now being contested and recounted and there have even been deaths due to violence in some polling stations, what an absolute f
k up, you really couldn't make it up.
Hilariously they are accusing the opposition party, CHP of vote rigging when in every previous election, it's Erdogan's party that have always had this cloud over their heads. The votes are now being contested and recounted and there have even been deaths due to violence in some polling stations, what an absolute f
k up, you really couldn't make it up.Istanbul's mayoral election is to be re-run because some people didn't like the result first time round.
"Istanbul's mayoral election was affected by "organised crime and serious corruption", Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says.
Mr Erdogan was defending the decision to re-run the 31 March vote, which returned a slim win for the opposition.
Opposition candidate Ekrem Imamoglu, who has been stripped of his duties, described the move as "treacherous".
The European Parliament also said the decision would end the credibility of democratic elections in Turkey."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48184149
You know things are bad when even the EU think re-running the election is a shameful act.
"Istanbul's mayoral election was affected by "organised crime and serious corruption", Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says.
Mr Erdogan was defending the decision to re-run the 31 March vote, which returned a slim win for the opposition.
Opposition candidate Ekrem Imamoglu, who has been stripped of his duties, described the move as "treacherous".
The European Parliament also said the decision would end the credibility of democratic elections in Turkey."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48184149
You know things are bad when even the EU think re-running the election is a shameful act.
Lol I was going to say the same. No matter which camp you are in, going back on a vote sets a very dangerous precedent IMO.
The difference of course is that here the Governments incompetence may be the cause of a re-vote whereas in Turkey, it's purely and simply because the man in power didn't like the outcome.
The Turkish Lira took another nose dive immediately after the announcement, the economy is on the brink of collapse and this won't help matters at all. Unfortunately half the voting population are still in thrall to him. A friend sent a screen cap of a report on one of Erdogan's sponsored news channels which ran the headline that the opposition had rigged some of the votes by using nano technology. NANO TECHNOLOGY FFS!!
Being surrounded by reasonably intelligent and well informed people I think we end up in a bit of a bubble. Can people really be so stupid and gullible? Seriously I think I'm going to move there and start a career in politics, you could literally persuade them of anything.
The difference of course is that here the Governments incompetence may be the cause of a re-vote whereas in Turkey, it's purely and simply because the man in power didn't like the outcome.
The Turkish Lira took another nose dive immediately after the announcement, the economy is on the brink of collapse and this won't help matters at all. Unfortunately half the voting population are still in thrall to him. A friend sent a screen cap of a report on one of Erdogan's sponsored news channels which ran the headline that the opposition had rigged some of the votes by using nano technology. NANO TECHNOLOGY FFS!!
Being surrounded by reasonably intelligent and well informed people I think we end up in a bit of a bubble. Can people really be so stupid and gullible? Seriously I think I'm going to move there and start a career in politics, you could literally persuade them of anything.
Edited by Guvernator on Tuesday 7th May 21:10
Guvernator said:
Seriously I think I'm going to move there and start a career in politics, you could literally persuade them of anything.
I would not, the current incumbent is quite likely to have you locked up if not killed it could be a better plan to become an advisor to a willing patsyEdited by Guvernator on Tuesday 7th May 21:10
BlackLabel said:
The European Parliament also said the decision would end the credibility of democratic elections in Turkey."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48184149
You know things are bad when even the EU think re-running the election is a shameful act.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48184149
You know things are bad when even the EU think re-running the election is a shameful act.
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