Meanwhile in Turkey

[Robertj21a]

If nothing else, his win in Istanbul may now give tourists a bit more confidence to return to that lovely part of the world. Tourism has been dealt a massive blow during the recent Erdogan era.

[BlackLabel]

How will the Americans react to this?


"Turkey has received the first parts of a Russian S-400 missile defence system despite opposition from the US.

The shipment arrived in an airbase in the capital Ankara on Friday, the Turkish defence ministry says.

The move will anger the US, which has warned that Turkey cannot have both the S-400 anti-aircraft defence system and US F-35 fighter jets."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48962885


"The first batch of a Russian S-400 missile defence system has arrived in Turkey, a development likely to anger the US and put the struggling Turkish economy at risk of new sanctions.

Three planes carrying equipment for the reported £1.6bn system arrived in Ankara from Russia on Friday, the Turkish defence ministry said."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/12/russ...

[glazbagun]

They absolutely can't give them F-35's now, surely? If they do then I might actually start beliving the Trump-Is-A-Russian-Asset tinfoil stuff.

Looks like Erdogan is trying to play both sides of against each other. Maybe cheaper F-35'S or some economic help will be offered to nix this deal.

[anonymous-user]

Maybe there'll be Texit?
Americans withdraw access to their plane tech and the Turks buy from Vlad instead?

[Vanden Saab]

BlackLabel said:

How will the Americans react to this?


"Turkey has received the first parts of a Russian S-400 missile defence system despite opposition from the US.

The shipment arrived in an airbase in the capital Ankara on Friday, the Turkish defence ministry says.

The move will anger the US, which has warned that Turkey cannot have both the S-400 anti-aircraft defence system and US F-35 fighter jets."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48962885


"The first batch of a Russian S-400 missile defence system has arrived in Turkey, a development likely to anger the US and put the struggling Turkish economy at risk of new sanctions.

Three planes carrying equipment for the reported £1.6bn system arrived in Ankara from Russia on Friday, the Turkish defence ministry said."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/12/russ...

More to the point how will the EU react...

[anonymous-user]

Wouldn't surprise me if Turkey are out of NATO soon.

Its untenable to have Russian military missile systems and stay in NATO.

[Digga]

My own take, for some time, has been that Turkey were walking the tightrope of what is and is not acceptable for EU and USA for some time.

Their strength - the reason they are still at the adult's table, despite such poor manners and eating habits - is that they are a key, strategic buffer between the West (not least the EU) and the chaos of the Middle East.

I feel they have already overplayed that hand and will be set adrift.

[Penelope Stopit]

Turkey sends 42 Tanks to occupied part of Cyprus

German tanks, Mmmmm

https://greece.greekreporter.com/2019/07/04/turkey...

[petop]

Penelope Stopit said:

Turkey sends 42 Tanks to occupied part of Cyprus

German tanks, Mmmmm

https://greece.greekreporter.com/2019/07/04/turkey...

I would not worry. They do not operate them very well and either leave them on the battlefield once hit with minor damage or when they break down.

[Countdown]

Digga said:

My own take, for some time, has been that Turkey were walking the tightrope of what is and is not acceptable for EU and USA for some time.

Their strength - the reason they are still at the adult's table, despite such poor manners and eating habits - is that they are a key, strategic buffer between the West (not least the EU) and the chaos of the Middle East.

I feel they have already overplayed that hand and will be set adrift.

I think the main reason we needed them was to keep the Russian Black Sea Fleet out of the Mediterranean. Treating them like a 2nd rate dictatorship (which is what they currently are) has pushed them towards the USSR.

[Digga]

Countdown said:

Digga said:

My own take, for some time, has been that Turkey were walking the tightrope of what is and is not acceptable for EU and USA for some time.

Their strength - the reason they are still at the adult's table, despite such poor manners and eating habits - is that they are a key, strategic buffer between the West (not least the EU) and the chaos of the Middle East.

I feel they have already overplayed that hand and will be set adrift.

I think the main reason we needed them was to keep the Russian Black Sea Fleet out of the Mediterranean. Treating them like a 2nd rate dictatorship (which is what they currently are) has pushed them towards the USSR.

They were also highly useful in insulating Europe from Syria. It's easy to forget how many refugees they took, let alone marshalled, but they also kept the conflict itself a bit more remote.

[Countdown]

Digga said:

hey were also highly useful in insulating Europe from Syria. It's easy to forget how many refugees they took, let alone marshalled, but they also kept the conflict itself a bit more remote.

The Syrian thing is relatively recent. They (Turkey) are important for much greater strategic reasons; the US in particular doesn’t care how many Syrian refugees enter Europe. The biggest single benefit of having Turkey on our side is location of bases such as Incirrlik and (as I said) bottling up the Black Sea Fleet if the st ever hit the fan.

[Penelope Stopit]

petop said:

Penelope Stopit said:

Turkey sends 42 Tanks to occupied part of Cyprus

German tanks, Mmmmm

https://greece.greekreporter.com/2019/07/04/turkey...

I would not worry. They do not operate them very well and either leave them on the battlefield once hit with minor damage or when they break down.

I'll take your word for it, thank you very much

[Guvernator]

Countdown said:

The Syrian thing is relatively recent. They (Turkey) are important for much greater strategic reasons; the US in particular doesn’t care how many Syrian refugees enter Europe. The biggest single benefit of having Turkey on our side is location of bases such as Incirrlik and (as I said) bottling up the Black Sea Fleet if the st ever hit the fan.

This is the reason why they have always been given so much leeway previously. Also remember that until Erdogan came to power, Turkey was very US friendly and it's only his regime that has changed that over the last 15 years.

The problem you have is despite all the horrible things he does, he is still popular among a large part of the population due to his almost total control of the media and how he portrays himself as the only Turkish leader who stood up to the evil US bullies. Add in a bit of good old religious rabble rousing, his consolidation of power and removal of anything that might oppose him and you have a situation where the only real way to remove him is to go to war with Turkey and no one is really willing to do that as it would be a VERY costly fight and due it's location, could lead to all kinds of knock on trouble.

He has massive support amongst most middle eastern countries who again see him as standing up to Israel and the US so there will be a lot of sabre rattling and threats of financial penalties and embargoes but that's about as far as it will go. I think they are really just hoping he will bugger off at some point.