Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5
Discussion
HenryJM said:
All the debt is held by the UK, if Scotland were to leave the debt would remain with the UK, it can't be reassigned to Scotland.
But Scotland only gets independence with the agreement of the UK so it is anticipated that Scotland would have to take on a portion of the debt, committing to pay it to the UK, in order for Scotland to get independence.
That's ok. Scotland can stay in the UK. The rest of us will leave and form a new union....But Scotland only gets independence with the agreement of the UK so it is anticipated that Scotland would have to take on a portion of the debt, committing to pay it to the UK, in order for Scotland to get independence.
Munter said:
HenryJM said:
All the debt is held by the UK, if Scotland were to leave the debt would remain with the UK, it can't be reassigned to Scotland.
But Scotland only gets independence with the agreement of the UK so it is anticipated that Scotland would have to take on a portion of the debt, committing to pay it to the UK, in order for Scotland to get independence.
That's ok. Scotland can stay in the UK. The rest of us will leave and form a new union....But Scotland only gets independence with the agreement of the UK so it is anticipated that Scotland would have to take on a portion of the debt, committing to pay it to the UK, in order for Scotland to get independence.
HenryJM said:
No thank you, we'd keep the BoE and sterling and the associated benefits even if it meant the whole debt. Loss of that would be huge, it's a shame so few Scots understand economics.
To be totally fair it is a complex issue - remember average GCSE grade is what C... And even less in maths. Would many really understand it at 16? I highly doubt it, what about pensioners - I'd imagine most wouldn't. Infact I wonder if more than 20% of the UK population understand it and that's a passing understanding.
Its criminal that this isn't being explained fully to the voters by a totally independent party with no angle on the vote in low level language. Maybe the simplest thing what would you cut to fund the £10billion hole on day 1 or pensioners doctors teachers policemen housing benefit dole MPs salary paying suppliers.
Actually if it is a yes vote as a supplier I'd not want to build up any debt
HenryJM said:
All the debt is held by the UK, if Scotland were to leave the debt would remain with the UK, it can't be reassigned to Scotland.
Moreover, if this logic holds, then it would apply to the mineral rights too. They are also held by the UK and if Scotland were to leave the union, then the mineral rights (and therefore the tax income from those rights) would also remain with the UK.Scotland has an area of c. 80,000 sqkm and around 5m people. England, Wales and NI have an area of c.240,000 sq km and c. 50m people, so Scotland has roughly ⅓ of the land and 1/10 of the people
If iScotland were to demand a geographic split of the mineral rights asset, then they would also have to agree to a geographic split of the liability (the debt). If, on the other hand, they were to retain a population-based split of the debt they could reasonably be granted a population-based share of the mineral rights.
I'm feeling stupid here seen a few comments from Pro Yes voters I don't understand.
They keep saying they are owed 10% of everything in the rUK however when you respond with well rUK own 90% of everything in Scotland they get pretty s
tty. Are they just plain daft to think that is a serious possible outcome?
I'd like to hear from a Pro Yes to explain please
They keep saying they are owed 10% of everything in the rUK however when you respond with well rUK own 90% of everything in Scotland they get pretty s
tty. Are they just plain daft to think that is a serious possible outcome? I'd like to hear from a Pro Yes to explain please
Welshbeef said:
I'm feeling stupid here seen a few comments from Pro Yes voters I don't understand.
They keep saying they are owed 10% of everything in the rUK however when you respond with well rUK own 90% of everything in Scotland they get pretty stty. Are they just plain daft to think that is a serious possible outcome?
I'd like to hear from a Pro Yes to explain please
They keep saying they are owed 10% of everything in the rUK however when you respond with well rUK own 90% of everything in Scotland they get pretty s
tty. Are they just plain daft to think that is a serious possible outcome? I'd like to hear from a Pro Yes to explain please
They can't be understood unless you have a fully charged victim card
HenryJM said:
But Scotland only gets independence with the agreement of the UK so it is anticipated that Scotland would have to take on a portion of the debt, committing to pay it to the UK, in order for Scotland to get independence.
The reconvened Scottish Parliament merely has to repeal the Act of Union and the UK ceases.This could be problematic for England( incorporating Wales) with Northern Ireland¹, as it currently has no parliament...
¹NI's status is a complete mystery, the Kingdom of Ireland ceased to exist in 1949/1962 and it's not in either the Kingdom of England( incorporating Wales) nor the Kingdom of Scotland.
Well who ever saw that coming
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/01/paul-mc...
Famous person supports union
Cybernats call him a on twitter
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/01/paul-mc...
Famous person supports union
Cybernats call him a
on twitterfluffnik said:
The reconvened Scottish Parliament merely has to repeal the Act of Union and the UK ceases.
This could be problematic for England( incorporating Wales) with Northern Ireland¹, as it currently has no parliament...
Well why bother with the edinburgh agreement?This could be problematic for England( incorporating Wales) with Northern Ireland¹, as it currently has no parliament...
¹NI's status is a complete mystery, the Kingdom of Ireland ceased to exist in 1949/1962 and it's not in either the Kingdom of England( incorporating Wales) nor the Kingdom of Scotland.
Why bother with the referendum?
Why not just do it now?
McWigglebum4th said:
fluffnik said:
The reconvened Scottish Parliament merely has to repeal the Act of Union and the UK ceases.
This could be problematic for England( incorporating Wales) with Northern Ireland¹, as it currently has no parliament...
Well why bother with the edinburgh agreement?This could be problematic for England( incorporating Wales) with Northern Ireland¹, as it currently has no parliament...
¹NI's status is a complete mystery, the Kingdom of Ireland ceased to exist in 1949/1962 and it's not in either the Kingdom of England( incorporating Wales) nor the Kingdom of Scotland.
Why bother with the referendum?
Why not just do it now?
t.The SNP have been in power for how long, a political party whose sole purpose is to get independence for Scotland - and they somehow forgot to do it when they got a majority of MSP's?
fluffnik said:
The reconvened Scottish Parliament merely has to repeal the Act of Union and the UK ceases.
This could be problematic for England( incorporating Wales) with Northern Ireland¹, as it currently has no parliament...
You really have no clue, do you? Never has a man with so many dreams had such a sparse ability to understand reality. No wonder you support the Rev, you two are clearly on the same level.This could be problematic for England( incorporating Wales) with Northern Ireland¹, as it currently has no parliament...
¹NI's status is a complete mystery, the Kingdom of Ireland ceased to exist in 1949/1962 and it's not in either the Kingdom of England( incorporating Wales) nor the Kingdom of Scotland.
This is interesting - article below details estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, plus the creation of new currency at £2bn, plus £12bn p.a. "to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country" (I won't mention that we don't actually know the exact level taxes raised in Scotland...
Full article below:
Start-up costs for independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn
The Centre for Business and Economic Research estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, more than 10 times the figure set out by first minister Alex Salmond.
Great divergence has already emerged surrounding the costs of setting up an independent Scotland. The UK Treasury puts the total cost at £1.5bn while the Scottish Government, which opted not to publish figures required to go independent, has argued that breaking away from the UK will cost just £250m.
But a CEBR report commissioned by the Sunday Times has estimated it could cost Scotland up to £2.5bn to become an independent country.
Key figures in the report include £1bn required for creating new tax and welfare systems.The set-up of new government departments such as the Scottish foreign office is likely to cost around £450m, according to the report.
Scotland would also have to borrow around £12bn a year, the report says, or opt to raise taxes or drastically cut spending in order to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country.
The possibility that Scotland may have to create its own currency, which the report believes is the most likely long-term solution for Scotland’s currency along with joining the euro, would result in a “huge” one-off cost of £2bn for Scottish taxpayers on top of the £2.5bn figure.
The alternative option of sharing the pound in a formal currency union would require “fairly painless set-up costs”, according to the report.
Unilaterally using the pound would result in “comparatively insignificant costs” too, the report adds, although this is only likely to be a temporary solution before the country is forced to create its own currency or adopt the euro.
CEBR economist and author of the report Sam Alderson argues establishing an independent Scotland “isn’t going to be cheap” but desrcibes these costs as “manageable.”
He says: “The figure of £2.4bn, whilst it is large, represents less than 2 per cent of Scottish GDP and will not fall upon a newly formed government in one lump sum but will be spread across the best part of a decade.
“It is likely the costs involved in establishing the bodies, systems, processes and so on required to function as an independent state will eventually be recouped because of cost savings that could be produced through eliminating the costs arising from the complexities involved across various UK systems - savings incurred because of the more simple process of managing a smaller state and significant savings in areas such as defence.”
Source: http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news-and-analysis/...
Full article below:
Start-up costs for independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn
The Centre for Business and Economic Research estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, more than 10 times the figure set out by first minister Alex Salmond.
Great divergence has already emerged surrounding the costs of setting up an independent Scotland. The UK Treasury puts the total cost at £1.5bn while the Scottish Government, which opted not to publish figures required to go independent, has argued that breaking away from the UK will cost just £250m.
But a CEBR report commissioned by the Sunday Times has estimated it could cost Scotland up to £2.5bn to become an independent country.
Key figures in the report include £1bn required for creating new tax and welfare systems.The set-up of new government departments such as the Scottish foreign office is likely to cost around £450m, according to the report.
Scotland would also have to borrow around £12bn a year, the report says, or opt to raise taxes or drastically cut spending in order to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country.
The possibility that Scotland may have to create its own currency, which the report believes is the most likely long-term solution for Scotland’s currency along with joining the euro, would result in a “huge” one-off cost of £2bn for Scottish taxpayers on top of the £2.5bn figure.
The alternative option of sharing the pound in a formal currency union would require “fairly painless set-up costs”, according to the report.
Unilaterally using the pound would result in “comparatively insignificant costs” too, the report adds, although this is only likely to be a temporary solution before the country is forced to create its own currency or adopt the euro.
CEBR economist and author of the report Sam Alderson argues establishing an independent Scotland “isn’t going to be cheap” but desrcibes these costs as “manageable.”
He says: “The figure of £2.4bn, whilst it is large, represents less than 2 per cent of Scottish GDP and will not fall upon a newly formed government in one lump sum but will be spread across the best part of a decade.
“It is likely the costs involved in establishing the bodies, systems, processes and so on required to function as an independent state will eventually be recouped because of cost savings that could be produced through eliminating the costs arising from the complexities involved across various UK systems - savings incurred because of the more simple process of managing a smaller state and significant savings in areas such as defence.”
Source: http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news-and-analysis/...
fluffnik said:
The reconvened Scottish Parliament merely has to repeal the Act of Union and the UK ceases.
So, if the UK were to be dissolved by such an action, how should the assets and liabilities of the former UK fairly be divided up amongst the 4 countries? By population share or by geography?As others have asked, why hasn't this already been done, if it's in the power of the Scottish Parliament to do so?
Edinburger said:
This is interesting - article below details estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, plus the creation of new currency at £2bn, plus £12bn p.a. "to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country" (I won't mention that we don't actually know the exact level taxes raised in Scotland...
Full article below:
Start-up costs for independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn
The Centre for Business and Economic Research estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, more than 10 times the figure set out by first minister Alex Salmond.
Great divergence has already emerged surrounding the costs of setting up an independent Scotland. The UK Treasury puts the total cost at £1.5bn while the Scottish Government, which opted not to publish figures required to go independent, has argued that breaking away from the UK will cost just £250m.
But a CEBR report commissioned by the Sunday Times has estimated it could cost Scotland up to £2.5bn to become an independent country.
Key figures in the report include £1bn required for creating new tax and welfare systems.The set-up of new government departments such as the Scottish foreign office is likely to cost around £450m, according to the report.
Scotland would also have to borrow around £12bn a year, the report says, or opt to raise taxes or drastically cut spending in order to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country.
The possibility that Scotland may have to create its own currency, which the report believes is the most likely long-term solution for Scotland’s currency along with joining the euro, would result in a “huge” one-off cost of £2bn for Scottish taxpayers on top of the £2.5bn figure.
The alternative option of sharing the pound in a formal currency union would require “fairly painless set-up costs”, according to the report.
Unilaterally using the pound would result in “comparatively insignificant costs” too, the report adds, although this is only likely to be a temporary solution before the country is forced to create its own currency or adopt the euro.
CEBR economist and author of the report Sam Alderson argues establishing an independent Scotland “isn’t going to be cheap” but desrcibes these costs as “manageable.”
He says: “The figure of £2.4bn, whilst it is large, represents less than 2 per cent of Scottish GDP and will not fall upon a newly formed government in one lump sum but will be spread across the best part of a decade.
“It is likely the costs involved in establishing the bodies, systems, processes and so on required to function as an independent state will eventually be recouped because of cost savings that could be produced through eliminating the costs arising from the complexities involved across various UK systems - savings incurred because of the more simple process of managing a smaller state and significant savings in areas such as defence.”
Source: http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news-and-analysis/...
It does make you wonder how fiscally viable the SNPs other policies are, when they seem to have got the costs of independence out by a factor of ten...Full article below:
Start-up costs for independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn
The Centre for Business and Economic Research estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, more than 10 times the figure set out by first minister Alex Salmond.
Great divergence has already emerged surrounding the costs of setting up an independent Scotland. The UK Treasury puts the total cost at £1.5bn while the Scottish Government, which opted not to publish figures required to go independent, has argued that breaking away from the UK will cost just £250m.
But a CEBR report commissioned by the Sunday Times has estimated it could cost Scotland up to £2.5bn to become an independent country.
Key figures in the report include £1bn required for creating new tax and welfare systems.The set-up of new government departments such as the Scottish foreign office is likely to cost around £450m, according to the report.
Scotland would also have to borrow around £12bn a year, the report says, or opt to raise taxes or drastically cut spending in order to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country.
The possibility that Scotland may have to create its own currency, which the report believes is the most likely long-term solution for Scotland’s currency along with joining the euro, would result in a “huge” one-off cost of £2bn for Scottish taxpayers on top of the £2.5bn figure.
The alternative option of sharing the pound in a formal currency union would require “fairly painless set-up costs”, according to the report.
Unilaterally using the pound would result in “comparatively insignificant costs” too, the report adds, although this is only likely to be a temporary solution before the country is forced to create its own currency or adopt the euro.
CEBR economist and author of the report Sam Alderson argues establishing an independent Scotland “isn’t going to be cheap” but desrcibes these costs as “manageable.”
He says: “The figure of £2.4bn, whilst it is large, represents less than 2 per cent of Scottish GDP and will not fall upon a newly formed government in one lump sum but will be spread across the best part of a decade.
“It is likely the costs involved in establishing the bodies, systems, processes and so on required to function as an independent state will eventually be recouped because of cost savings that could be produced through eliminating the costs arising from the complexities involved across various UK systems - savings incurred because of the more simple process of managing a smaller state and significant savings in areas such as defence.”
Source: http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news-and-analysis/...
Edinburger said:
This is interesting - article below details estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, plus the creation of new currency at £2bn, plus £12bn p.a. "to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country" (I won't mention that we don't actually know the exact level taxes raised in Scotland...
Full article below:
Start-up costs for independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn
The Centre for Business and Economic Research estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, more than 10 times the figure set out by first minister Alex Salmond.
Great divergence has already emerged surrounding the costs of setting up an independent Scotland. The UK Treasury puts the total cost at £1.5bn while the Scottish Government, which opted not to publish figures required to go independent, has argued that breaking away from the UK will cost just £250m.
But a CEBR report commissioned by the Sunday Times has estimated it could cost Scotland up to £2.5bn to become an independent country.
Key figures in the report include £1bn required for creating new tax and welfare systems.The set-up of new government departments such as the Scottish foreign office is likely to cost around £450m, according to the report.
Scotland would also have to borrow around £12bn a year, the report says, or opt to raise taxes or drastically cut spending in order to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country.
The possibility that Scotland may have to create its own currency, which the report believes is the most likely long-term solution for Scotland’s currency along with joining the euro, would result in a “huge” one-off cost of £2bn for Scottish taxpayers on top of the £2.5bn figure.
The alternative option of sharing the pound in a formal currency union would require “fairly painless set-up costs”, according to the report.
Unilaterally using the pound would result in “comparatively insignificant costs” too, the report adds, although this is only likely to be a temporary solution before the country is forced to create its own currency or adopt the euro.
CEBR economist and author of the report Sam Alderson argues establishing an independent Scotland “isn’t going to be cheap” but desrcibes these costs as “manageable.”
He says: “The figure of £2.4bn, whilst it is large, represents less than 2 per cent of Scottish GDP and will not fall upon a newly formed government in one lump sum but will be spread across the best part of a decade.
“It is likely the costs involved in establishing the bodies, systems, processes and so on required to function as an independent state will eventually be recouped because of cost savings that could be produced through eliminating the costs arising from the complexities involved across various UK systems - savings incurred because of the more simple process of managing a smaller state and significant savings in areas such as defence.”
Source: http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news-and-analysis/...
Ed- Did you read that bit in bold?Full article below:
Start-up costs for independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn
The Centre for Business and Economic Research estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, more than 10 times the figure set out by first minister Alex Salmond.
Great divergence has already emerged surrounding the costs of setting up an independent Scotland. The UK Treasury puts the total cost at £1.5bn while the Scottish Government, which opted not to publish figures required to go independent, has argued that breaking away from the UK will cost just £250m.
But a CEBR report commissioned by the Sunday Times has estimated it could cost Scotland up to £2.5bn to become an independent country.
Key figures in the report include £1bn required for creating new tax and welfare systems.The set-up of new government departments such as the Scottish foreign office is likely to cost around £450m, according to the report.
Scotland would also have to borrow around £12bn a year, the report says, or opt to raise taxes or drastically cut spending in order to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country.
The possibility that Scotland may have to create its own currency, which the report believes is the most likely long-term solution for Scotland’s currency along with joining the euro, would result in a “huge” one-off cost of £2bn for Scottish taxpayers on top of the £2.5bn figure.
The alternative option of sharing the pound in a formal currency union would require “fairly painless set-up costs”, according to the report.
Unilaterally using the pound would result in “comparatively insignificant costs” too, the report adds, although this is only likely to be a temporary solution before the country is forced to create its own currency or adopt the euro.
CEBR economist and author of the report Sam Alderson argues establishing an independent Scotland “isn’t going to be cheap” but desrcibes these costs as “manageable.”
He says: “The figure of £2.4bn, whilst it is large, represents less than 2 per cent of Scottish GDP and will not fall upon a newly formed government in one lump sum but will be spread across the best part of a decade.
“It is likely the costs involved in establishing the bodies, systems, processes and so on required to function as an independent state will eventually be recouped because of cost savings that could be produced through eliminating the costs arising from the complexities involved across various UK systems - savings incurred because of the more simple process of managing a smaller state and significant savings in areas such as defence.”
Source: http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news-and-analysis/...
Do you remember our discussion about Swinney and cutting benefits and defence?
Edited by Troubleatmill on Monday 1st September 21:17
jamiebae said:
It does make you wonder how fiscally viable the SNPs other policies are, when they seem to have got the costs of independence out by a factor of ten...
So when Salmond was giggling and rolling in the floor LOL during countless FMQs about the set up costs being preposterous its actually MORE nearly double the finger in the air judgement by the UK. Didn't he claim it was 12 times overstated .... Um well its 10times the expectation he set - though they have form of this how much was the Holyrood building budget v actual, how much was the tram system budget v actual , and why couldn't they run a balanced budget last year instead of a £10billiom deficit. Burger - tis the first link you have ever posted which totally destroys a ProYes stance well done.
Troubleatmill said:
Edinburger said:
This is interesting - article below details estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, plus the creation of new currency at £2bn, plus £12bn p.a. "to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country" (I won't mention that we don't actually know the exact level taxes raised in Scotland...
Full article below:
Start-up costs for independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn
The Centre for Business and Economic Research estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, more than 10 times the figure set out by first minister Alex Salmond.
Great divergence has already emerged surrounding the costs of setting up an independent Scotland. The UK Treasury puts the total cost at £1.5bn while the Scottish Government, which opted not to publish figures required to go independent, has argued that breaking away from the UK will cost just £250m.
But a CEBR report commissioned by the Sunday Times has estimated it could cost Scotland up to £2.5bn to become an independent country.
Key figures in the report include £1bn required for creating new tax and welfare systems.The set-up of new government departments such as the Scottish foreign office is likely to cost around £450m, according to the report.
Scotland would also have to borrow around £12bn a year, the report says, or opt to raise taxes or drastically cut spending in order to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country.
The possibility that Scotland may have to create its own currency, which the report believes is the most likely long-term solution for Scotland’s currency along with joining the euro, would result in a “huge” one-off cost of £2bn for Scottish taxpayers on top of the £2.5bn figure.
The alternative option of sharing the pound in a formal currency union would require “fairly painless set-up costs”, according to the report.
Unilaterally using the pound would result in “comparatively insignificant costs” too, the report adds, although this is only likely to be a temporary solution before the country is forced to create its own currency or adopt the euro.
CEBR economist and author of the report Sam Alderson argues establishing an independent Scotland “isn’t going to be cheap” but desrcibes these costs as “manageable.”
He says: “The figure of £2.4bn, whilst it is large, represents less than 2 per cent of Scottish GDP and will not fall upon a newly formed government in one lump sum but will be spread across the best part of a decade.
“It is likely the costs involved in establishing the bodies, systems, processes and so on required to function as an independent state will eventually be recouped because of cost savings that could be produced through eliminating the costs arising from the complexities involved across various UK systems - savings incurred because of the more simple process of managing a smaller state and significant savings in areas such as defence.”
Source: http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news-and-analysis/...
Ed- Did you read that bit in bold?Full article below:
Start-up costs for independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn
The Centre for Business and Economic Research estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, more than 10 times the figure set out by first minister Alex Salmond.
Great divergence has already emerged surrounding the costs of setting up an independent Scotland. The UK Treasury puts the total cost at £1.5bn while the Scottish Government, which opted not to publish figures required to go independent, has argued that breaking away from the UK will cost just £250m.
But a CEBR report commissioned by the Sunday Times has estimated it could cost Scotland up to £2.5bn to become an independent country.
Key figures in the report include £1bn required for creating new tax and welfare systems.The set-up of new government departments such as the Scottish foreign office is likely to cost around £450m, according to the report.
Scotland would also have to borrow around £12bn a year, the report says, or opt to raise taxes or drastically cut spending in order to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country.
The possibility that Scotland may have to create its own currency, which the report believes is the most likely long-term solution for Scotland’s currency along with joining the euro, would result in a “huge” one-off cost of £2bn for Scottish taxpayers on top of the £2.5bn figure.
The alternative option of sharing the pound in a formal currency union would require “fairly painless set-up costs”, according to the report.
Unilaterally using the pound would result in “comparatively insignificant costs” too, the report adds, although this is only likely to be a temporary solution before the country is forced to create its own currency or adopt the euro.
CEBR economist and author of the report Sam Alderson argues establishing an independent Scotland “isn’t going to be cheap” but desrcibes these costs as “manageable.”
He says: “The figure of £2.4bn, whilst it is large, represents less than 2 per cent of Scottish GDP and will not fall upon a newly formed government in one lump sum but will be spread across the best part of a decade.
“It is likely the costs involved in establishing the bodies, systems, processes and so on required to function as an independent state will eventually be recouped because of cost savings that could be produced through eliminating the costs arising from the complexities involved across various UK systems - savings incurred because of the more simple process of managing a smaller state and significant savings in areas such as defence.”
Source: http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news-and-analysis/...
Do you remember our discussion about Swinney and cutting benefits and defence?
Edited by Troubleatmill on Monday 1st September 21:17
Welshbeef said:
jamiebae said:
It does make you wonder how fiscally viable the SNPs other policies are, when they seem to have got the costs of independence out by a factor of ten...
So when Salmond was giggling and rolling in the floor LOL during countless FMQs about the set up costs being preposterous its actually MORE nearly double the finger in the air judgement by the UK. Didn't he claim it was 12 times overstated .... Um well its 10times the expectation he set - though they have form of this how much was the Holyrood building budget v actual, how much was the tram system budget v actual , and why couldn't they run a balanced budget last year instead of a £10billiom deficit. Burger - tis the first link you have ever posted which totally destroys a ProYes stance well done.
It doesn't "totally destroy" anything. To me, it's probably the most realistic projection I've read.
Edinburger said:
Troubleatmill said:
Edinburger said:
This is interesting - article below details estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, plus the creation of new currency at £2bn, plus £12bn p.a. "to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country" (I won't mention that we don't actually know the exact level taxes raised in Scotland...
Full article below:
Start-up costs for independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn
The Centre for Business and Economic Research estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, more than 10 times the figure set out by first minister Alex Salmond.
Great divergence has already emerged surrounding the costs of setting up an independent Scotland. The UK Treasury puts the total cost at £1.5bn while the Scottish Government, which opted not to publish figures required to go independent, has argued that breaking away from the UK will cost just £250m.
But a CEBR report commissioned by the Sunday Times has estimated it could cost Scotland up to £2.5bn to become an independent country.
Key figures in the report include £1bn required for creating new tax and welfare systems.The set-up of new government departments such as the Scottish foreign office is likely to cost around £450m, according to the report.
Scotland would also have to borrow around £12bn a year, the report says, or opt to raise taxes or drastically cut spending in order to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country.
The possibility that Scotland may have to create its own currency, which the report believes is the most likely long-term solution for Scotland’s currency along with joining the euro, would result in a “huge” one-off cost of £2bn for Scottish taxpayers on top of the £2.5bn figure.
The alternative option of sharing the pound in a formal currency union would require “fairly painless set-up costs”, according to the report.
Unilaterally using the pound would result in “comparatively insignificant costs” too, the report adds, although this is only likely to be a temporary solution before the country is forced to create its own currency or adopt the euro.
CEBR economist and author of the report Sam Alderson argues establishing an independent Scotland “isn’t going to be cheap” but desrcibes these costs as “manageable.”
He says: “The figure of £2.4bn, whilst it is large, represents less than 2 per cent of Scottish GDP and will not fall upon a newly formed government in one lump sum but will be spread across the best part of a decade.
“It is likely the costs involved in establishing the bodies, systems, processes and so on required to function as an independent state will eventually be recouped because of cost savings that could be produced through eliminating the costs arising from the complexities involved across various UK systems - savings incurred because of the more simple process of managing a smaller state and significant savings in areas such as defence.”
Source: http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news-and-analysis/...
Ed- Did you read that bit in bold?Full article below:
Start-up costs for independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn
The Centre for Business and Economic Research estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn, more than 10 times the figure set out by first minister Alex Salmond.
Great divergence has already emerged surrounding the costs of setting up an independent Scotland. The UK Treasury puts the total cost at £1.5bn while the Scottish Government, which opted not to publish figures required to go independent, has argued that breaking away from the UK will cost just £250m.
But a CEBR report commissioned by the Sunday Times has estimated it could cost Scotland up to £2.5bn to become an independent country.
Key figures in the report include £1bn required for creating new tax and welfare systems.The set-up of new government departments such as the Scottish foreign office is likely to cost around £450m, according to the report.
Scotland would also have to borrow around £12bn a year, the report says, or opt to raise taxes or drastically cut spending in order to fill the gap between its existing public spending and taxes raised in country.
The possibility that Scotland may have to create its own currency, which the report believes is the most likely long-term solution for Scotland’s currency along with joining the euro, would result in a “huge” one-off cost of £2bn for Scottish taxpayers on top of the £2.5bn figure.
The alternative option of sharing the pound in a formal currency union would require “fairly painless set-up costs”, according to the report.
Unilaterally using the pound would result in “comparatively insignificant costs” too, the report adds, although this is only likely to be a temporary solution before the country is forced to create its own currency or adopt the euro.
CEBR economist and author of the report Sam Alderson argues establishing an independent Scotland “isn’t going to be cheap” but desrcibes these costs as “manageable.”
He says: “The figure of £2.4bn, whilst it is large, represents less than 2 per cent of Scottish GDP and will not fall upon a newly formed government in one lump sum but will be spread across the best part of a decade.
“It is likely the costs involved in establishing the bodies, systems, processes and so on required to function as an independent state will eventually be recouped because of cost savings that could be produced through eliminating the costs arising from the complexities involved across various UK systems - savings incurred because of the more simple process of managing a smaller state and significant savings in areas such as defence.”
Source: http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news-and-analysis/...
Do you remember our discussion about Swinney and cutting benefits and defence?
Edited by Troubleatmill on Monday 1st September 21:17
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