Byron Smith murder trial in US - wow
Discussion
Food for thought here to those who complain about thieves being shot when they break in. ( not necessarily on here just in general)
The three teens mugged a guy. He handed over his wallet voluntarily. They killed him anyway.
The suspects are 15,16 and 17
Note I'm not saying this smith guy was right. Shooting yes, executing no. But I'm not going to get all upset because they were young.
Smith could just as easily been murdered in his own home and I have no objections to him defending himself. He did over step the mark though and should go down IMO.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2610887/Th...
The three teens mugged a guy. He handed over his wallet voluntarily. They killed him anyway.
The suspects are 15,16 and 17
Note I'm not saying this smith guy was right. Shooting yes, executing no. But I'm not going to get all upset because they were young.
Smith could just as easily been murdered in his own home and I have no objections to him defending himself. He did over step the mark though and should go down IMO.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2610887/Th...
The guy definitely went too far executing these two and should face the consequences.
however.......
....as somebody who has disturbed burglars in the night - you simply cannot underestimate the impact having intruders in your home can have. We had years of sleepless nights, my wife jumping up screaming in the night at the slightest sound. Being burgled - especially when you are in the the house at the time can be very traumatic. We still haven't really got over it - and it happened 15 years ago.
Presumably these kids knew the risk they were taking. Gun ownership in the US is high and in this state, deadly force is legal. There is always the chance if you break into somebody's home under such circumstances - you could face the barrel of a gun.
however.......
....as somebody who has disturbed burglars in the night - you simply cannot underestimate the impact having intruders in your home can have. We had years of sleepless nights, my wife jumping up screaming in the night at the slightest sound. Being burgled - especially when you are in the the house at the time can be very traumatic. We still haven't really got over it - and it happened 15 years ago.
Presumably these kids knew the risk they were taking. Gun ownership in the US is high and in this state, deadly force is legal. There is always the chance if you break into somebody's home under such circumstances - you could face the barrel of a gun.
Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 26th April 01:54
longblackcoat said:
TopOnePercent said:
Break into my home, where my family sleep, and you or I will probably die in the ensuing battle. I'll be doing my best to ensure it isn't me.
Internet Hard Man Of The Month Award. Points deducted for not settling the matter with a roundhouse kick, but then not everyone can be Chuck Norris.
TheJimi said:
Why does someone who feels strongly about defending himself or his family automatically have to be labelled a hardman, internet or otherwise?
Feeling strongly about defending one's family doesn't label one a hard man (internet or otherwise). Suggesting that a break-in will result in a "fight to the death" between a "Hero" and a "Bad Guy" is the part that's a bit....cringey.Countdown said:
TheJimi said:
Why does someone who feels strongly about defending himself or his family automatically have to be labelled a hardman, internet or otherwise?
Feeling strongly about defending one's family doesn't label one a hard man (internet or otherwise). Suggesting that a break-in will result in a "fight to the death" between a "Hero" and a "Bad Guy" is the part that's a bit....cringey.br d said:
Countdown said:
TheJimi said:
Why does someone who feels strongly about defending himself or his family automatically have to be labelled a hardman, internet or otherwise?
Feeling strongly about defending one's family doesn't label one a hard man (internet or otherwise). Suggesting that a break-in will result in a "fight to the death" between a "Hero" and a "Bad Guy" is the part that's a bit....cringey.In real life I'll take the bad guy with a gun over the self-proclaimed "hero" with a gun anyday. The latter scares the s
t out of me, because they can justify anything if they really want to.Shooting because you have to is one thing, shooting because you believe in heroes and villains is quite another.
In an area of high gun ownership, with a criminal who's already been inside clink, and who's already burgled the same house before, with any warning shot, wounding shot or similar nonsense, id hazard a guess that there would always be a risk of the said crim coming back in the future for some kind of revenue / another go.
The above ignoring the point that aiming to wound is idiotic of course...
I'm not condoning the method, but I won't lose much sleep over it.
Smith clearly is a nutcase mind, he should have just kept a better maintained weapon and fired more shots in rapid succession at each intruder.
The above ignoring the point that aiming to wound is idiotic of course...
I'm not condoning the method, but I won't lose much sleep over it.
Smith clearly is a nutcase mind, he should have just kept a better maintained weapon and fired more shots in rapid succession at each intruder.
Hilts said:
I hope this psycho gets x to life.
In California that would pretty much mean life, not sure in Minnesota.
California is probably the most leftist state and likely to give the lightest sentence. ETA: The execution thing is wrong IMO. I would just shoot center mass on target and kill the fool in the initial volley. My next to the bed piece is a S&W .357 Magnum. If it misses, it will suck the oxygen out of the lungs as it passes by. In California that would pretty much mean life, not sure in Minnesota.
Edited by Jimbeaux on Sunday 27th April 03:09
Should the kids have been there? Obviously not.
Should they have expected to be shot and killed? Yes.
Did they deserve to die? No. And I don't think anyone here truly believes they did. There's a difference between deserving to die for something, and being killed because you're stupid enough to put yourself in that situation.
In my opinion the homeowner set out to kill them, regardless of whether they were a threat to him or not. But saying that, even if that hadn't been his plan, what's the best thing to do when there are potentially armed intruders upstairs? Give away your position by shouting a warning that you're armed? I'd say most of the time they'd do a runner on hearing that, but there are some total nutters out there.
Anyway, he behaved like a total psycho and deserves all he gets.
As an aside, is it just a myth that you're advised to shoot an intruder dead so they can't come back and sue you?
Should they have expected to be shot and killed? Yes.
Did they deserve to die? No. And I don't think anyone here truly believes they did. There's a difference between deserving to die for something, and being killed because you're stupid enough to put yourself in that situation.
In my opinion the homeowner set out to kill them, regardless of whether they were a threat to him or not. But saying that, even if that hadn't been his plan, what's the best thing to do when there are potentially armed intruders upstairs? Give away your position by shouting a warning that you're armed? I'd say most of the time they'd do a runner on hearing that, but there are some total nutters out there.
Anyway, he behaved like a total psycho and deserves all he gets.
As an aside, is it just a myth that you're advised to shoot an intruder dead so they can't come back and sue you?
He's been found guilty of murder but will be appealing.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2616024/Mi...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2616024/Mi...
The audio is on Liveleak, I won't link because it makes for very grim listening, especially the girl.
Very interested to know what the "shoot 'em dead with no warning crowd" thinks the sentence should be if any?
On the other hand it is VERY weird that the guy recorded the whole thing let alone not delete it and then let the police have it. Who would do that?
Of course they'll give the stock "nutjob" response but conspiracy theory anyone? For the whole thing being set up to give bad press to gun owners and try to render it illegal for people to have guns and fight back, more government control etc etc
Just so strange about the audio.
Very interested to know what the "shoot 'em dead with no warning crowd" thinks the sentence should be if any?
On the other hand it is VERY weird that the guy recorded the whole thing let alone not delete it and then let the police have it. Who would do that?
Of course they'll give the stock "nutjob" response but conspiracy theory anyone? For the whole thing being set up to give bad press to gun owners and try to render it illegal for people to have guns and fight back, more government control etc etc
Just so strange about the audio.
Edited by Driller on Thursday 1st May 11:02
Straight-up murder.
I have no issue with people causing harm, serious harm or even death to burglars when there is a threat and it's reasonable in the circumstances.
Revenge is a different matter. Where do the "the played with fire" advocates draw the ethical / legal line? Can he keep them for weeks and torture them? What time frame is he allowed to use force after the threat has gone?
I have no issue with people causing harm, serious harm or even death to burglars when there is a threat and it's reasonable in the circumstances.
Revenge is a different matter. Where do the "the played with fire" advocates draw the ethical / legal line? Can he keep them for weeks and torture them? What time frame is he allowed to use force after the threat has gone?
Driller said:
The audio is on Liveleak, I won't link because it makes for very grim listening, especially the girl.
Very interested to know what the "shoot 'em dead with no warning crowd" thinks the sentence should be if any?
On the other hand it is VERY weird that the guy recorded the whole thing let alone not delete it and then let the police have it. Who would do that?
Of course they'll give the stock "nutjob" response but conspiracy theory anyone? For the whole thing being set up to give bad press to gun owners and try to render it illegal for people to have guns and fight back, more government control etc etc
Just so strange about the audio.
I've not listened to the audio, but read some background on the case. A friend of the perp indicated that he was so paranoid about burglars that he started an audio recording every day in order to pick up any intruders in his home. When none were there he deleted it and restarted it - every morning.Very interested to know what the "shoot 'em dead with no warning crowd" thinks the sentence should be if any?
On the other hand it is VERY weird that the guy recorded the whole thing let alone not delete it and then let the police have it. Who would do that?
Of course they'll give the stock "nutjob" response but conspiracy theory anyone? For the whole thing being set up to give bad press to gun owners and try to render it illegal for people to have guns and fight back, more government control etc etc
Just so strange about the audio.
Edited by Driller on Thursday 1st May 11:02
It seems like awfully good quality, apparently it was compressed afterwards etc but all the same. Be interesting to know the sound recording setup, mics etc. ETA see it was a handheld. Why didn't he delete, he had the time.
Doesn't explain why he didn't delete it either. Even being a hardcore Republican NRA protagonist, he must have realised that it wouldn't look good.
Something weird about the whole thing but if it did happen as recorded then he should get the worst punishment available.
It's bad enough imagining someone hitting a girl and causing her pain but to hear this kid cry out in agony each time he shoots her and a bullet tears though her flesh and bone, is chilling even without the impassive, emotionless commentary he gives..
Doesn't explain why he didn't delete it either. Even being a hardcore Republican NRA protagonist, he must have realised that it wouldn't look good.
Something weird about the whole thing but if it did happen as recorded then he should get the worst punishment available.
It's bad enough imagining someone hitting a girl and causing her pain but to hear this kid cry out in agony each time he shoots her and a bullet tears though her flesh and bone, is chilling even without the impassive, emotionless commentary he gives..
Edited by Driller on Thursday 1st May 11:46
Edited by Driller on Thursday 1st May 11:51
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