Byron Smith murder trial in US - wow
Discussion
There's a quote from Cat in Red Dwarf:
"If you eat tuna, expect bones."
They could reasonably expect that someone whom they'd burgled several times might be a bit miffed & wouldn't welcome them with flowers, incense & a few love beads.
Some here say that they were only kids, having a bit of a giggle. They committed an adult crime & suffered an adult punishment. I'm not saying it's ideal, I'm saying that they purposely went out to harm someone and therefore any consequences of that act should be their problem and nobody else's, despite the homeowner being somewhat deranged.
"If you eat tuna, expect bones."
They could reasonably expect that someone whom they'd burgled several times might be a bit miffed & wouldn't welcome them with flowers, incense & a few love beads.
Some here say that they were only kids, having a bit of a giggle. They committed an adult crime & suffered an adult punishment. I'm not saying it's ideal, I'm saying that they purposely went out to harm someone and therefore any consequences of that act should be their problem and nobody else's, despite the homeowner being somewhat deranged.
grumbledoak said:
wolves_wanderer said:
Are you suggesting he be executed instead?
Guess again. 
The alternative being that you are happy for people like this mental patient to have access to guns and executing people. In which case I'm glad you aren't in charge, frankly.
wolves_wanderer said:
The alternative being that you are happy for people like this mental patient to have access to guns and executing people. In which case I'm glad you aren't in charge, frankly.
Rest assured, I am equally happy that you are not allowed to decide who is and who is not a mental patient. Rovinghawk said:
Some here say that they were only kids, having a bit of a giggle. They committed an adult crime & suffered an adult punishment. I'm not saying it's ideal, I'm saying that they purposely went out to harm someone and therefore any consequences of that act should be their problem and nobody else's, despite the homeowner being somewhat deranged.
That's interesting. Your views are somewhat different to those expressed on this thread:http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Rovinghawk said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
He had no weapon. Shooting him seems a little excessive based on that detail.Rovinghawk said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Accepting he was not a nice man, I still don't like the idea of shooting him just in case he might have a weapon. I believe a threat has to be identified before killing someone. There wasn't even reasonable belief that he had a gun, there was belief that he was fiddling in a glovebox.Rovinghawk said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Sorry- which of these justifies killing him?Oakey said:
Does it really come as a surprise there's something of a power fantasy on these forums at the thought of straight up executing intruders but the complete opposite when it's the state doing the executing?
The old boy isn't a hazard to me (I don't do burglary).The state might be a hazard to me (I do walk down the street, get on trains, carry plastic bags, etc).
The old boy at least had the honesty not to tell porkies about what he did.
grumbledoak said:
wolves_wanderer said:
The alternative being that you are happy for people like this mental patient to have access to guns and executing people. In which case I'm glad you aren't in charge, frankly.
Rest assured, I am equally happy that you are not allowed to decide who is and who is not a mental patient. 
Rovinghawk said:
The old boy isn't a hazard to me (I don't do burglary).
The state might be a hazard to me (I do walk down the street, get on trains, carry plastic bags, etc).
The old boy at least had the honesty not to tell porkies about what he did.
The state might be a hazard to me (I do walk down the street, get on trains, carry plastic bags, etc).
The old boy at least had the honesty not to tell porkies about what he did.
RovingHawk said:
I believe a threat has to be identified before killing someone
Do you believe Smith had identified a threat before he killed them? TheJimi said:
He went too far, but equally, I have zero sympathy for the dead kids.
That makes no sense. You can't have it both ways.His defence will presumably be along the lines,
- I shot people who I thought were armed intruders.
- They would both have died from the first shot. The further shots made no difference.
Just because you know there's a burglar in your house doesn't remove your right to defend yourself/property against burglars.
On the other hand it's not such a good idea to open fire at "noises in the bathroom" in an occupied house without a break-in.....
Rovinghawk said:
It's entirely possible that they didn't break in with the intention of delivering a basket full of muffins.
They might even have broken in with criminal intent.
You appear to be moving the goalposts somewhat. In the case of Grainger, by 'a threat identified' you clearly mean until the police saw he was actually carrying a gun. In this case though, simply being on his property is a 'threat'?They might even have broken in with criminal intent.
So then, after he shot each intruder and wounded them and prior to executing them, what threat did they then pose?
And if Grainger had been carrying a gun, and the police had shot and wounded him, then walked up to him and finished him off at point blank, I assume you'd be all up for that then?
Oakey said:
In the case of Grainger, by 'a threat identified' you clearly mean until the police saw he was actually carrying a gun.
He was travelling in a car. They had been told he might have a gun. I travel in cars- should I be shot in circumstances where the judge later calls the policeman a liar? (You might say yes...........)Oakey said:
In this case though, simply being on his property is a 'threat'?
Breaking in suggests that they're not completely law-abiding and might even be criminals.Oakey said:
So then, after he shot each intruder and wounded them and prior to executing them, what threat did they then pose?
This is the bit where I agree he went too far. If he'd killed with the first shot/salvo then fair enough- finishing them off was wrong.oakey said:
And if Grainger had been carrying a gun, and the police had shot and wounded him, then walked up to him and finished him off at point blank, I assume you'd be all up for that then?
If he'd been carrying a gun then I'd be fine with keep shooting until he's obviously hors de combat. Finishing him off afterwards would be equally as wrong as Smith's actions.Edited by Rovinghawk on Wednesday 23 April 14:53
Rovinghawk said:
I anticipate a reduction in burglaries in that area.
If they hadn't been burgling, they wouldn't be dead so in that sense they brought it on themselves.
One shot at each and a subsequent phone call to the Police would have sufficed. 3 in the head of the girl who's already on the ground is excessive.
FwdConvert said:
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: I don't know if it's just as I get a little older but I swear this place gets worse and worse every fking time I come here.
It's like it's a competition about who can be the biggest on the internet.
There's this well known phrase about doors, and banging on arses, on ways out... you might take it as advice. To protect your sensitivities from your %£@%^.king time I come here.It's like it's a competition about who can be the biggest
on the internet.hornetrider said:
Unfortunately the only UK site reporting this seems to be everyone's favourite daily.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2610531/Co...
What a cold bd. Yes he can defend his home but he recorded the audio of when he shot them.
Hell of a case. Gruesome.
Funny thing is, this is the first that I've heard of this case. I'm sure it's news locally but I haven't seen any mention of it on the networks / CNN etc.. People being shot here just aint news I guess....http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2610531/Co...
What a cold b
d. Yes he can defend his home but he recorded the audio of when he shot them.Hell of a case. Gruesome.
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