Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?
Discussion
numtumfutunch said:
There must be compelling reasons why the West hasnt acted so far
Our current leaders believe appeasement will solve the problems with both Russia and Iran. A tactic we tried with Germany following WW1, guess how that worked out...That said, falling gas and oil prices are causing big issues in Russia right now - sanctions haven't helped.
sa_20v said:
That said, falling gas and oil prices are causing big issues in Russia right now - sanctions haven't helped.
Funny how that has happened. The USA decides to open up their taps to become the worlds largest oil and gas producer, pushing OPEC aside and driving down prices. At the same time, conveniently crippling the economies of its biggest potential foes without having to appear to be aggressive via sanctions or sabre rattling.dvs_dave said:
Funny how that has happened. The USA decides to open up their taps to become the worlds largest oil and gas producer, pushing OPEC aside and driving down prices. At the same time, conveniently crippling the economies of its biggest potential foes without having to appear to be aggressive via sanctions or sabre rattling.
Coincidence, nothing more! 
sa_20v said:
dvs_dave said:
Funny how that has happened. The USA decides to open up their taps to become the worlds largest oil and gas producer, pushing OPEC aside and driving down prices. At the same time, conveniently crippling the economies of its biggest potential foes without having to appear to be aggressive via sanctions or sabre rattling.
Coincidence, nothing more! sa_20v said:
dvs_dave said:
Funny how that has happened. The USA decides to open up their taps to become the worlds largest oil and gas producer, pushing OPEC aside and driving down prices. At the same time, conveniently crippling the economies of its biggest potential foes without having to appear to be aggressive via sanctions or sabre rattling.
Coincidence, nothing more! 
skyrover said:
skyrover said:
You've gotta laugh at the Kremlin, I think they're actually starting to believe their own lies.Amazing how they're willing to explore EVERY possibility - except the one that actually caused it.
t and some will stick"I'm of Russian origin and I think this is the most obvious least controversial case ever. Russian military under the guise of the rebels shot down the MA flight in a mistaken belief it was a Ukranian supply aircraft. My proof? The rebels themselves admitted to this. So case closed.
Half an hour after the flight went down, Strelkov the insurgent commander began boasting that his men shot down another "bird". He had boasted about shot down Ukranian planes before and was always truthful (I.e. he never made false claims before, in regards to shot down planes and choppers). Of course they tried to delete his posts but too late.
The shooting down was of course accidental. The BUK lacked the separate radar that helps in IFF (friend/foe identification) so to the BUK crew the plane was just an indeterminate blob.
There's little chance the Ukranians would use any of their BUKs since the rebels had no airworthy aircraft and any air contact the Ukranian crews would see on radar would 99.99% be friendly even if un-identified.
The fact that the Russian side began to come out with conflicting stories is of course in itself an indictment of Russia and the rebels. When the suspect begins to change his story... you have to admit that it looks really bad and Russia was pulling out some howlers out of it's ass, like the SU25 story. People coming out with this disinformation were too stupid to even lie about a more plausible aircraft like a Ukr Su27 or some such.
Half an hour after the flight went down, Strelkov the insurgent commander began boasting that his men shot down another "bird". He had boasted about shot down Ukranian planes before and was always truthful (I.e. he never made false claims before, in regards to shot down planes and choppers). Of course they tried to delete his posts but too late.
The shooting down was of course accidental. The BUK lacked the separate radar that helps in IFF (friend/foe identification) so to the BUK crew the plane was just an indeterminate blob.
There's little chance the Ukranians would use any of their BUKs since the rebels had no airworthy aircraft and any air contact the Ukranian crews would see on radar would 99.99% be friendly even if un-identified.
The fact that the Russian side began to come out with conflicting stories is of course in itself an indictment of Russia and the rebels. When the suspect begins to change his story... you have to admit that it looks really bad and Russia was pulling out some howlers out of it's ass, like the SU25 story. People coming out with this disinformation were too stupid to even lie about a more plausible aircraft like a Ukr Su27 or some such.
Nikolai Petroff said:
I'm of Russian origin and I think this is the most obvious least controversial case ever. Russian military under the guise of the rebels shot down the MA flight in a mistaken belief it was a Ukranian supply aircraft. My proof? The rebels themselves admitted to this. So case closed.
Half an hour after the flight went down, Strelkov the insurgent commander began boasting that his men shot down another "bird". He had boasted about shot down Ukranian planes before and was always truthful (I.e. he never made false claims before, in regards to shot down planes and choppers). Of course they tried to delete his posts but too late.
The shooting down was of course accidental. The BUK lacked the separate radar that helps in IFF (friend/foe identification) so to the BUK crew the plane was just an indeterminate blob.
There's little chance the Ukranians would use any of their BUKs since the rebels had no airworthy aircraft and any air contact the Ukranian crews would see on radar would 99.99% be friendly even if un-identified.
The fact that the Russian side began to come out with conflicting stories is of course in itself an indictment of Russia and the rebels. When the suspect begins to change his story... you have to admit that it looks really bad and Russia was pulling out some howlers out of it's ass, like the SU25 story. People coming out with this disinformation were too stupid to even lie about a more plausible aircraft like a Ukr Su27 or some such.
Any chance you can ring Putin and tell him he's been sussed..? It might stop him from continuing from making himself look such a dick.Half an hour after the flight went down, Strelkov the insurgent commander began boasting that his men shot down another "bird". He had boasted about shot down Ukranian planes before and was always truthful (I.e. he never made false claims before, in regards to shot down planes and choppers). Of course they tried to delete his posts but too late.
The shooting down was of course accidental. The BUK lacked the separate radar that helps in IFF (friend/foe identification) so to the BUK crew the plane was just an indeterminate blob.
There's little chance the Ukranians would use any of their BUKs since the rebels had no airworthy aircraft and any air contact the Ukranian crews would see on radar would 99.99% be friendly even if un-identified.
The fact that the Russian side began to come out with conflicting stories is of course in itself an indictment of Russia and the rebels. When the suspect begins to change his story... you have to admit that it looks really bad and Russia was pulling out some howlers out of it's ass, like the SU25 story. People coming out with this disinformation were too stupid to even lie about a more plausible aircraft like a Ukr Su27 or some such.
Nikolai Petroff said:
Russian military under the guise of the rebels shot down the MA flight in a mistaken belief it was a Ukranian supply aircraft. My proof? The rebels themselves admitted to this. So case closed.
I think professional russian operators would have the means to check if it was a civilian aircraft even without separate radar. More likely it was just handed to rebels with only a basic training and that was the main problem.AreOut said:
Nikolai Petroff said:
Russian military under the guise of the rebels shot down the MA flight in a mistaken belief it was a Ukranian supply aircraft. My proof? The rebels themselves admitted to this. So case closed.
I think professional russian operators would have the means to check if it was a civilian aircraft even without separate radar. More likely it was just handed to rebels with only a basic training and that was the main problem.OR
just handed to rebels
?
AreOut said:
I think professional russian operators would have the means to check if it was a civilian aircraft even without separate radar. More likely it was just handed to rebels with only a basic training and that was the main problem.
Actually probably not, at least not at 35,000ft they wouldn't.Although saying that if they had Internet access you have live flight tracking sites for commercial aircraft.
However, personally been out in the middle of nowhere in the Ukraine countryside there is a good chance the rebels do not have Inet access.
Phil
Edited by Transmitter Man on Friday 14th August 05:52
there is mobile satellite Internet, slow and expensive but enough to check flight radar
also russian professional operators would know it wouldn't be a military aircraft if they had the information about 35K altitude
@Mojo
handed to them and explained them the basics, it's relatively simple system and fairly easy to use, the problem is that in situations like this experience plays the role
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