Next EU Meddling Target: Vacuum Cleaners
Discussion
paranoid airbag said:
In one sense I find it hard to care about the god-given right to be sold inefficient vacumn cleaners; and don't kid yourself that they're "powerful". They're just inefficient.
Erm, no they are powerful. My Hitachi CVxxxx at full blast will suck off building dust completely off the skirting. The Dyson won't even leave a mark on the dust. Of course, I can dust it all off my hand. Again the point is that I can vary that power (as I can with a drill or any other tool).It's a load of s
te, most jobs use less energy to do if you have a more powerful appliance because you can do it faster - and in the case of a vacuum, a 2000w may well pick up stuff in one go that a 1600w would need 2 passes over, you've also got fixed inefficiencies and losses in the mechanics of the hoover that become greater percentage-wise the less power you have available.
It's like the eco-bhing about 3kw rapid boil kettles when they first arrived - it was a load of misplaced bks, they're more efficent than the old low power ones because they waste less power heating the kettle and the surrounding air.
te, most jobs use less energy to do if you have a more powerful appliance because you can do it faster - and in the case of a vacuum, a 2000w may well pick up stuff in one go that a 1600w would need 2 passes over, you've also got fixed inefficiencies and losses in the mechanics of the hoover that become greater percentage-wise the less power you have available. It's like the eco-b
hing about 3kw rapid boil kettles when they first arrived - it was a load of misplaced bks, they're more efficent than the old low power ones because they waste less power heating the kettle and the surrounding air.Maybe if we voted people into MEP positions to properly represent us and attend eu parliament sessions, rather than taxpayer money funding UKIP MEPs who don't turn up, and should they do, will do their very best to see it that we don't get a fair deal from Europe, we may get something back, but we repeatedly shoot ourselves in the foot then complain. I don't see the logic here.
In terms of what we put into Europe minus what we get back from it (net cost) compared to the interest we pay on our debt, it's a drop in the ocean but you won't get the tabloids publishing pro-eu facts much easier to ignore the elephant in the room as usual.
In terms of what we put into Europe minus what we get back from it (net cost) compared to the interest we pay on our debt, it's a drop in the ocean but you won't get the tabloids publishing pro-eu facts much easier to ignore the elephant in the room as usual.
thefrog said:
Maybe if we voted people into MEP positions to properly represent us and attend eu parliament sessions, rather than taxpayer money funding UKIP MEPs who don't turn up, and should they do, will do their very best to see it that we don't get a fair deal from Europe, we may get something back, but we repeatedly shoot ourselves in the foot then complain. I don't see the logic here.
In terms of what we put into Europe minus what we get back from it (net cost) compared to the interest we pay on our debt, it's a drop in the ocean but you won't get the tabloids publishing pro-eu facts much easier to ignore the elephant in the room as usual.
In terms of what we put into Europe minus what we get back from it (net cost) compared to the interest we pay on our debt, it's a drop in the ocean but you won't get the tabloids publishing pro-eu facts much easier to ignore the elephant in the room as usual.
So you think the tail could wag the German dog ???
Edited by powerstroke on Friday 22 August 07:05
Derek Smith said:
We used to live in a large 4-bed place with a great deal of floor area. We always bought powerful vacuum cleaners, at least going by the wattage. They tended to last 3 or 4 years. A couple were less than reliable and so we asked advice and were told to opt for a SEBO. I was stunned when the chap suggested the 1300W would be the best buy.
Was told to try for a month and then, if it didn't show its worth, he'd replace it. After a fortnight we decided it was what we wanted. That was around 5 years ago and it is still at full suck. We've been in a smaller, 3 bed, place for 2 years now and 1300W is over-powered.
If Sebo can do it with 1300W then so can other companies.
I agree that governments should keep their noses out of my life but I can't see the problem with this restriction.
Another vote for SEBO here. I bought one second hand, it looked like a child's toy but when I used it it was the best hoover I've ever used. I've had it 7 years now a and have given it some abuse especially when doing some building work, it would suck up anything! Was told to try for a month and then, if it didn't show its worth, he'd replace it. After a fortnight we decided it was what we wanted. That was around 5 years ago and it is still at full suck. We've been in a smaller, 3 bed, place for 2 years now and 1300W is over-powered.
If Sebo can do it with 1300W then so can other companies.
I agree that governments should keep their noses out of my life but I can't see the problem with this restriction.
I just checked the power in t'internet, it's only 1150w.However... I think the EU should f
k off and let people make their own decisions, people are paying for the electricity their hoover is using.currybum said:
Maybe the engineers will need to start making the things more efficient at turning motor power in to suction rather than just chucking in a bigger motor.
Some fag paper calculations, say there are 375 million (one for each house hold and 0.5 again for each business) vacuum cleaners in the EU. With 20% being above 2KW so you have a total of 75million cleaners using at least 400w less.
Assume each cleaner is used for an average of 2 hours a week so 104 hours a year, each affected hover saves 42kwh of electricity a year, a total of 3.15 billion kwh or energy saved. Or about the same to replace this 1600acre solar power plant
When you have populations in the hundreds of millions small changes really do make a decent sized impact.
Your first post since December 2013, and you butt in to talk about Hoovers!Some fag paper calculations, say there are 375 million (one for each house hold and 0.5 again for each business) vacuum cleaners in the EU. With 20% being above 2KW so you have a total of 75million cleaners using at least 400w less.
Assume each cleaner is used for an average of 2 hours a week so 104 hours a year, each affected hover saves 42kwh of electricity a year, a total of 3.15 billion kwh or energy saved. Or about the same to replace this 1600acre solar power plant
When you have populations in the hundreds of millions small changes really do make a decent sized impact.
Your last post was also about "saving the environment"
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Do you work for the EU? Get a life mate.
Derek Smith said:
Was told to try for a month and then, if it didn't show its worth, he'd replace it. After a fortnight we decided it was what we wanted. That was around 5 years ago and it is still at full suck. We've been in a smaller, 3 bed, place for 2 years now and 1300W is over-powered.
I have to ask.. How can a hoover be fine for a 4 bed house but too powerful for a 2 bed house? Are you worried that due to the smaller rooms it's likely to suck up furniture as its in closer proximity to it? 
thefrog said:
Maybe if we voted people into MEP positions to properly represent us and attend eu parliament sessions, rather than taxpayer money funding UKIP MEPs who don't turn up, and should they do, will do their very best to see it that we don't get a fair deal from Europe, we may get something back, but we repeatedly shoot ourselves in the foot then complain. I don't see the logic here.
In terms of what we put into Europe minus what we get back from it (net cost) compared to the interest we pay on our debt, it's a drop in the ocean but you won't get the tabloids publishing pro-eu facts much easier to ignore the elephant in the room as usual.
Do you understand how the EU Works? The MEP's function is merely a discussion shop. Policy and new legislation is decided by unelected career Bureaucrats. It's akin to the UK being governed by the Civil Service, with the Prime Minister and the cabinet chosen by the Civil Service. And all parliament does is discuss and vote on new legislation that the Civil Service wish to impose. In terms of what we put into Europe minus what we get back from it (net cost) compared to the interest we pay on our debt, it's a drop in the ocean but you won't get the tabloids publishing pro-eu facts much easier to ignore the elephant in the room as usual.
Einion Yrth said:
No, he plainly doesn't but it gave him the opportunity to have an inaccurate and uninformed whine about UKIP, so that's alright.
If UKIP did a fair job of representing facts and figures accurately, I'd give them a lot more credit, but they're unfortunately just another political party with an agenda that needs to be supported by massaged numbers. Anyway, let's exit Europe and see how the mighty Henry would fare in Germany, France and Netherlands where it is currently sold, except it would have to meet their regulations so the net result for Numatic who manufacture it is the same, unless they accept a drop in sales.
thefrog said:
Einion Yrth said:
No, he plainly doesn't but it gave him the opportunity to have an inaccurate and uninformed whine about UKIP, so that's alright.
If UKIP did a fair job of representing facts and figures accurately, I'd give them a lot more credit, but they're unfortunately just another political party with an agenda that needs to be supported by massaged numbers. www.ukipmeps.org/uploads/file/energy-policy-2014-f...
What irritates me is if the EUocrats wanted to help the environment and or increase efficiency, then they could simply make every vacuum (and every other appliance) come with an unconditional 10 yr warranty and product support. End the whole throw-it-away and buy another culture. but that would mean growing balls, standing up and upsetting the gravy train instead of pretending-to-care plastic policy'd tinkering parasitic skimming flotsam that they are.
turbobloke said:
Too generalist. The UKIP Energy Policy was a significant improvement over the Coalition equivalent for example. According to reports, Farage was having all UKIP policies reviewed, revised and independently costed ahead of the May 2015 General Election and there was talk of a release date in September.
www.ukipmeps.org/uploads/file/energy-policy-2014-f...
This document illustrates my point exactly. Take the first chart as an example. Makes the UK look good right... but against who ?www.ukipmeps.org/uploads/file/energy-policy-2014-f...
Comparing the UK total output in CO2 to China, US, India and Europe is irrelevant but makes the chart look like we're doing really well. If you look at the output per inhabitant in those countries (including Europe where we are slightly above average) and suddenly we're on an even keel with China, and over 4x worse than India.
Those numbers wouldn't support their argument so they're conveniently ignored. Lies, damn lies and statistics - just the same as any other party. And I won't mention their reporting of numbers in the context of Europe.
thefrog said:
turbobloke said:
Too generalist. The UKIP Energy Policy was a significant improvement over the Coalition equivalent for example. According to reports, Farage was having all UKIP policies reviewed, revised and independently costed ahead of the May 2015 General Election and there was talk of a release date in September.
www.ukipmeps.org/uploads/file/energy-policy-2014-f...
This document illustrates my point exactly. Take the first chart as an example.www.ukipmeps.org/uploads/file/energy-policy-2014-f...
The figure of 2% for the UK's share of global emissions of carbon dioxide as represented in the first chart is accurate.
thefrog said:
Comparing the UK total output in CO2 to China, US, India and Europe is irrelevant but makes the chart look like we're doing really well. If you look at the output per inhabitant in those countries (including Europe where we are slightly above average) and suddenly we're on an even keel with China, and over 4x worse than India.
Which is all irrelevant, as the point being made by UKIP was to indicate that the total UK national share of global emissions is a paltry 2%. You clearly need to read the full document rather than latch onto the first chart and run off at a tangent.The amount per capita is irrelevant. In the junkscience of mammadeup warming, the planet doesn't care whether a nation's emissions emanated from one very person in a very emissionary position or 60 million persons.
thefrog said:
Those numbers wouldn't support their argument so they're conveniently ignored.
The numbers support the UKIP argument that wholesale destruction of the UK economy on the back of a myth that doesn't stack up is pointless when, for example, if we stopped all tax gas output overnight, the rate of increase in China's emissions would wipe out our token gesture in about 2 years. At which point we would have regressed to a localised medieval lifestyle with an appalling death toll for no reason.thefrog said:
If you look at the output per inhabitant in those countries (including Europe where we are slightly above average) and suddenly we're on an even keel with China, and over 4x worse than India.
that's misleading as you're using effectively 3rd world countries to compare with.I am sure CO2/head of some tribe in the amazon would whip us all hands down, but I don't think going back to living like that will cut it these days!
fido said:
Erm, no they are powerful. My Hitachi CVxxxx at full blast will suck off building dust completely off the skirting. The Dyson won't even leave a mark on the dust. Of course, I can dust it all off my hand. Again the point is that I can vary that power (as I can with a drill or any other tool).
So your hand uses tens of watts at most, to the same effect as a device consuming 2000.Tell me again how that doesn't lead you to the conclusion that your hitachi is inefficient.
hairyben said:
What irritates me is if the EUocrats wanted to help the environment and or increase efficiency, then they could simply make every vacuum (and every other appliance) come with an unconditional 10 yr warranty and product support. End the whole throw-it-away and buy another culture. but that would mean growing balls, standing up and upsetting the gravy train instead of pretending-to-care plastic policy'd tinkering parasitic skimming flotsam that they are.
That is a damn fine suggestion, add 'user servicability' amongst that legislation and end the waste. I kid you not, my folks were going to throw away a Flymo because the blade was blunted and the bolt was stuck tight. I offered to take it off their hands, loosened the bolt, touched up the blade on the bench grinder and re-assembled - free lawn mower! I get quite sick of this 'throw it away because it's broken' culture. I've got a perfectly good garage vacuum cleaner at the moment because its previous owner threw it out due to a non-functioning brush-bar.mikesalt said:
hairyben said:
What irritates me is if the EUocrats wanted to help the environment and or increase efficiency, then they could simply make every vacuum (and every other appliance) come with an unconditional 10 yr warranty and product support. End the whole throw-it-away and buy another culture. but that would mean growing balls, standing up and upsetting the gravy train instead of pretending-to-care plastic policy'd tinkering parasitic skimming flotsam that they are.
That is a damn fine suggestion, add 'user servicability' amongst that legislation and end the waste. I kid you not, my folks were going to throw away a Flymo because the blade was blunted and the bolt was stuck tight. I offered to take it off their hands, loosened the bolt, touched up the blade on the bench grinder and re-assembled - free lawn mower! I get quite sick of this 'throw it away because it's broken' culture. I've got a perfectly good garage vacuum cleaner at the moment because its previous owner threw it out due to a non-functioning brush-bar.If i'd had to replace those items when the batteries died, I would have had less than half the life out of them I've had.
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