Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[Strocky]

BlackLabel said:

Labour - just to try and keep the SNP out which should happen where I live since Labour have a 15 or 16k majority here.

I think the polls which show the Nats getting 45+ seats in May are over estimations. They will get 20 plus/minus 5 imo

Which could be enough to hold the balance of power in the event of a hung parliament

[Strocky]

Welshbeef said:

Giving Devo Max and the fact that Scotland will raise all of its borrowing is a very smart move --- why? Over the period of time the legacy debt will errode down/need refinancing at each point Scotland will take the chunk of that debt --- basically snookered them from ever trying to walk away with zero debt.


Also it will prove beyond doubt that they cannot run a balanced budget with oil revenue a key factor

The flaw in your "analysis" is it's a legal requirement in Scotland for the budget to be balanced to pass through Parliament

[Welshbeef]

Strocky said:

Firstly the block grant is applicable to Scotland, Wales & NI, so quite why just Scotland would be penalised or rewarded in your scenario is baffling

Secondly as Simo points out the Oil Revenues are the UK's and are accrued by the UK Treasury, the UK treasury sets the block grant according to the Barnett Formula (see link below)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula#How...

Oil Revenues and the amount of block grant are not irretrievably linked but obviously one influences the other

It's all part of the "pooling and sharing of resources" you know that buzz phrase Bitter Together where so fond of spouting

Quite rightly the Scottish Government and the Unionist opposition would be rightly miffed if the UK kept the Oil Revenues and made just Scotland pay for the tax break by deducting it from their block grant

So if oil vanished are you saying the block grant wouldn't drop? If so does that mean that England pays more into the block grant or lending is increased?

[Welshbeef]

Strocky said:

Firstly the block grant is applicable to Scotland, Wales & NI, so quite why just Scotland would be penalised or rewarded in your scenario is baffling

Secondly as Simo points out the Oil Revenues are the UK's and are accrued by the UK Treasury, the UK treasury sets the block grant according to the Barnett Formula (see link below)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula#How...

Oil Revenues and the amount of block grant are not irretrievably linked but obviously one influences the other

It's all part of the "pooling and sharing of resources" you know that buzz phrase Bitter Together where so fond of spouting

Quite rightly the Scottish Government and the Unionist opposition would be rightly miffed if the UK kept the Oil Revenues and made just Scotland pay for the tax break by deducting it from their block grant

So if oil vanished are you saying the block grant wouldn't drop? If so does that mean that England pays more into the block grant or lending is increased?

[Strocky]

Of course it would for Scotland, Wales & NI.

England's budget would be lower as well

It's part of the deal of being in the UK, all revenues are accrued by the treasury and redistributed via the block grant

The formula is in the link I posted

Edited by Strocky on Thursday 4th December 23:42

[Welshbeef]

Strocky said:

Of course it would for every country in the UK including England, it's part of the deal of being in the UK, all revenues are accrued by the treasury and redistributed via the block grant

The formula is in the link I posted

So clearly making big investment (tax grants etc) in the oil fields which specifically benefits employment in Scotland and very North East England why should N Ireland and Wales and other non impacted areas of England chip into that? The tax cut is billions upon billions now Wales would benefit drastically from that they deserve the investment not just for the Scott's sorry had it all your way far too long now its hard ball

[///ajd]

Strocky said:

Oil Revenues and the amount of block grant are not irretrievably linked but obviously one influences the other

From what I understand of separatist policies it is a bit more complicated that this and depends on the performance of oil revenues.

- When oil revenues are high, then all the revenues belong solely to Scotland and not to the evil robbing bastid english, who have stolen them and don't deserve them. This is unfair and is creating all the poverty etc. The english should pay for all decommissioning and provide massive subsidies for wind power because Thatcher was a bit nasty.

- When oil revenues are not so high, then of course the full block grant allocation as per the Barnett formula applies and heaven help any of the bastid english who try and argue for a fairer share. The oil price is only low due to Cameron getting MI6 to manipulate OPEC in any case.


The only simple aspect of separatist maths is that it is always the fault of the bastid english.

[simoid]

///ajd said:

From what I understand of separatist policies it is a bit more complicated that this and depends on the performance of oil revenues.

- When oil revenues are high, then all the revenues belong solely to Scotland and not to the evil robbing bastid english, who have stolen them and don't deserve them. This is unfair and is creating all the poverty etc. The english should pay for all decommissioning and provide massive subsidies for wind power because Thatcher was a bit nasty.

- When oil revenues are not so high, then of course the full block grant allocation as per the Barnett formula applies and heaven help any of the bastid english who try and argue for a fairer share. The oil price is only low due to Cameron getting MI6 to manipulate OPEC in any case.


The only simple aspect of separatist maths is that it is always the fault of the bastid english.

"Oil? What oil? Scotland's oil? Oh that oil, nah we're sharing that. Now, about that shale gas..."

[Welshbeef]

///ajd said:

Strocky said:

Oil Revenues and the amount of block grant are not irretrievably linked but obviously one influences the other

From what I understand of separatist policies it is a bit more complicated that this and depends on the performance of oil revenues.

- When oil revenues are high, then all the revenues belong solely to Scotland and not to the evil robbing bastid english, who have stolen them and don't deserve them. This is unfair and is creating all the poverty etc. The english should pay for all decommissioning and provide massive subsidies for wind power because Thatcher was a bit nasty.

- When oil revenues are not so high, then of course the full block grant allocation as per the Barnett formula applies and heaven help any of the bastid english who try and argue for a fairer share. The oil price is only low due to Cameron getting MI6 to manipulate OPEC in any case.


The only simple aspect of separatist maths is that it is always the fault of the bastid english.

Simiond this was my point - too many London Pride tonight.

[simoid]

Welshbeef said:

Simiond this was my point - too many London Pride tonight.

Ah, I wasn't sure if one of us was having a logistical breakdown!

[Strocky]

Welshbeef said:

So clearly making big investment (tax grants etc) in the oil fields which specifically benefits employment in Scotland and very North East England why should N Ireland and Wales and other non impacted areas of England chip into that? The tax cut is billions upon billions now Wales would benefit drastically from that they deserve the investment not just for the Scott's sorry had it all your way far too long now its hard ball

You'll find it will mainly benefit the foreign corporations that own the oil rigs

You seem to want your cake and eat it, take all the resources in Scottish waters and solely penalise Scotland again because it gives employment and generates revenues for Scottish Companies (as well as English, Welsh & NI workers/companies)

Anyway don't blame me, I voted YES

[simoid]

Strocky said:

Anyway don't blame me, I voted YES

Which is entirely irrelevant in the present and future

[Strocky]

simoid said:

Which is entirely irrelevant in the present and future

Well done, your stellar run of stating the obvious and missing the nuances of my posts runs unabated

I'd also wouldn't bet on that certainty, things might change very quickly if the Tories devolve Corporation tax to NI, we end up out of the EU against the will of the Scottish electorate or the oil runs out and Westminster gives us our marching orders

Edited by Strocky on Friday 5th December 00:01

Edited by Strocky on Friday 5th December 00:03

[simoid]

Strocky said:

Well done, your stellar run of stating the obvious and missing the nuances of my posts runs unabated

I was kidding. Admitting to voting yes labels you as an eejit to the sensible majority and will do so forever more.

[Welshbeef]

simoid said:

Welshbeef said:

Simiond this was my point - too many London Pride tonight.

Ah, I wasn't sure if one of us was having a logistical breakdown!

Thursday night QTime on 6-8 London Pride = happy .

[McWigglebum4th]

Strocky said:

Well done, your stellar run of stating the obvious and missing the nuances of my posts runs unabated

I'd also wouldn't bet on that certainty, things might change very quickly if the Tories devolve Corporation tax to NI, we end up out of the EU against the will of the Scottish electorate or the oil runs out and Westminster gives us our marching orders

Edited by Strocky on Friday 5th December 00:01

Edited by Strocky on Friday 5th December 00:03

Oh look the victim card

[Welshbeef]

Strocky said:

simoid said:

Which is entirely irrelevant in the present and future

Well done, your stellar run of stating the obvious and missing the nuances of my posts runs unabated

I'd also wouldn't bet on that certainty, things might change very quickly if the Tories devolve Corporation tax to NI, we end up out of the EU against the will of the Scottish electorate or the oil runs out and Westminster gives us our marching orders

Edited by Strocky on Friday 5th December 00:01

Edited by Strocky on Friday 5th December 00:03

Please remember the overwhelming majority ++ want to stay in the EU its only those who are shouting loudest get heard at the minute. Very similar to the Scottish No Vote.

Also as the GE polls show its highly unlikely that Torys will even get elected.


Lastly why are you so afraid of leaving the EU but quite happy about leaving the UK? Leaving the UK would have been epically painful and disruptive to Scotland for decades to come whereas leaving the EU really wouldn't be that significant an issue.


Also Sturgeons view that IF the UK voted yes then Scotland needs a seperare vote on it is laughable and impossible

[Axionknight]

Strocky said:

You'll find it will mainly benefit the foreign corporations that own the oil rigs

You seem to want your cake and eat it, take all the resources in Scottish waters and solely penalise Scotland again because it gives employment and generates revenues for Scottish Companies (as well as English, Welsh & NI workers/companies)

Anyway don't blame me, I voted YES

That is properly rich from a ScotNat that is.

Yeah pal we won't blame you, 45 45 45!

[anonymous-user]

Strocky said:

You seem to want your cake and eat it, take all the resources in Scottish waters and solely penalise Scotland again because it gives employment and generates revenues for Scottish Companies (as well as English, Welsh & NI workers/companies)

Anyway don't blame me, I voted YES

Unbelievable. I'm actually lost for the words to type.

[anonymous-user]

Strocky said:

I'd also wouldn't bet on that certainty, things might change very quickly if the Tories devolve Corporation tax to NI, we end up out of the EU against the will of the Scottish electorate or the oil runs out and Westminster gives us our marching orders

According to the Yessirs ("The 37"), going against the settled and considered will of the Scottish people is A-OK, so that shouldn't bother you.