Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
I have managed to obtain CCTV footage of Edinburgh placing his vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wihaFybOrKw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wihaFybOrKw
McWigglebum4th said:
I have managed to obtain CCTV footage of Edinburgh placing his vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wihaFybOrKw
I watched that on the NYE and that was my first thought too :-)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wihaFybOrKw
Loved the Xmas deco one as well
Both quite close to the truth I thought
I wonder - does anyone within SNP wonder why it was lost?
I mean, clearly it was a major campaign, lots of time and effort spared, I just wonder if they know why they lost?
I suppose I am saying, was is simply that they couldn't convince enough people or was there more in the sense that their approach wasn't to deal with issues so much as lie about them. Things like explaining why, for example, Scotland being handled to start with as a non-EU member could be handled as opposed to trying to handle it by pretending that it wouldn't happen.
The same went on through other areas such as ship building and so on, rather than explain their way forwards they ignored or lied about them, I just wondered if that put a lot of people off voting for them.
I mean, clearly it was a major campaign, lots of time and effort spared, I just wonder if they know why they lost?
I suppose I am saying, was is simply that they couldn't convince enough people or was there more in the sense that their approach wasn't to deal with issues so much as lie about them. Things like explaining why, for example, Scotland being handled to start with as a non-EU member could be handled as opposed to trying to handle it by pretending that it wouldn't happen.
The same went on through other areas such as ship building and so on, rather than explain their way forwards they ignored or lied about them, I just wondered if that put a lot of people off voting for them.
Interesting time over the festive season, was talking to friends and relatives, the subject of Scottish independence can up ( not by me ) I was surprised at the level of hostility towards the Scots, people were calling for a vote in the remaining parts of the UK to kick Scotland out, one guy who worked on rigs all over the world thinks the nats missed a trick, having witnessed Scots on rigs after they had watched Brave Hart, he reckoned that if they had played it on a loop they would have won the vote, no problem.
The Scottish first minister has said that she will see independence in her life time, is not now the time to start planning in the rest of the UK for this eventuality?
Bank should be persuaded to move,if they are not already contemplating it, large civil service departments should be moved south, contracts for defence spending should be minimised to Scotland, link should be broken.
The Scottish first minister has said that she will see independence in her life time, is not now the time to start planning in the rest of the UK for this eventuality?
Bank should be persuaded to move,if they are not already contemplating it, large civil service departments should be moved south, contracts for defence spending should be minimised to Scotland, link should be broken.
PRTVR said:
Interesting time over the festive season, was talking to friends and relatives, the subject of Scottish independence can up ( not by me ) I was surprised at the level of hostility towards the Scots, people were calling for a vote in the remaining parts of the UK to kick Scotland out, one guy who worked on rigs all over the world thinks the nats missed a trick, having witnessed Scots on rigs after they had watched Brave Hart, he reckoned that if they had played it on a loop they would have won the vote, no problem.
The Scottish first minister has said that she will see independence in her life time, is not now the time to start planning in the rest of the UK for this eventuality?
Bank should be persuaded to move,if they are not already contemplating it, large civil service departments should be moved south, contracts for defence spending should be minimised to Scotland, link should be broken.
I fear that you make a very good point here. Lets be candid, if the uncertainty over the future of Scotland as part of the UK persists then Businesses and Government must take this into account when making long term investment decisions. The Scottish first minister has said that she will see independence in her life time, is not now the time to start planning in the rest of the UK for this eventuality?
Bank should be persuaded to move,if they are not already contemplating it, large civil service departments should be moved south, contracts for defence spending should be minimised to Scotland, link should be broken.
That can only be bad for jobs and the wider Scottish economy. I would expect to see a combination of a slow, inexorable relocation of skilled jobs back south of the border, and the provision of such contingencies as may be required to ensure that any future YES vote would have minimal impact on the rUK, both operationally and financially. To do anything else would represent a complete abdication of responsibility towards the population of rUK by the Government, and an unacceptable gambling of shareholders funds by the Directors of private companies.
The oil industry has the advantage of being able to point to oil prices, at least in the short term, for changes in its investment plans for the North Sea. The problem area will be ship building, as any reinstatement of capability in Portsmouth or Plymouth will immediately be seen for what it is. ( preparation for the abandonement of the Clyde)
I suspect that the Type 26s will be built in Scotland, but these might be the last ones. Look out for BAE investments in Portsmouth for "additional repair facilities" and such like in the next 5 years or so. Absolutely nothing to do with ship building there.....no sireee.....honest ......
Of course, the Nats do not ( refuse to) see the damage they are doing. Frankly any Nat should be hiding in shame after the $115 oil price fiasco, but of course that inconvenient truth is yet another Tory plot if Facebook claims are to be believed.
Nationalism is like a religion. It defies logic and breeds fantasy, it requires unquestioning faith and a bogey man to fear. But just like religion it does untold damage. I weep for Scotland. Its part of MY country, but it is slowly and surely being destroyed by the cancer of nationalism
HenryJM said:
Well it was certainly one of the features that people in the SNP seemed to think it was possible to be offensive and abusive to the UK but then still expect cooperation and help in making it happen. It seemed one of the bizarre elements that occurred.
I'd say in any debate where you are trying to convince someone to accept what you are saying and get behind you the big issue was on a number of key areas where what they had said was gospel then was found out to be at best questionable and some down right fabrication/a wish list. If they had said look the white paper is our opening gambit for negotiations or a set of very long term ambitions. If that was said I'm pretty sure some of those who voted no might have gone for a Yes. Vote.
Or actually what was the real goal possibly they achieved that and then some?
HenryJM said:
Well it was certainly one of the features that people in the SNP seemed to think it was possible to be offensive and abusive to the UK but then still expect cooperation and help in making it happen. It seemed one of the bizarre elements that occurred.
That always seemed the strangest thing about the nationalists, telling the rest of the UK it was none of their business, saying how terribly we were being treated, yet in the next breath saying we were going to get everything we wanted from Westminster. At least in the last couple of weeks even the "45" seem to have shut up a bit, hopefully even they have enough intelligence to realise what a state we would be in with current oil prices.
andymadmak said:
Look out for BAE investments in Portsmouth for "additional repair facilities" and such like in the next 5 years or so. Absolutely nothing to do with ship building there.....no sireee.....honest ......
It has to be a pretty dumb board of a company to say "Well. That's over.... we won't have to worry about it again."Organisations will be looking at....
1/ Who are our customers?
2/ Where are they based?
3/ Are our customers likely to relocate if another referendum is on the cards?
3/ Do we want to be based in a different country to our customers?
And over the long term continuity plans will be made to ensure that the presence of the organisation in one part of the country is proportional to the revenue generated by customers in that part of the country. (especially if the public are the customer)
This is not going to be good for Scotland over the long term.
Edited by Troubleatmill on Sunday 4th January 14:16
When I was a wee boy, I remember one day my brother climbed up a huge tree. He was perched on a branch and was threatening to jump and I remember my dad teling him that if he did then he'd break his legs and really hurt himself and he pleaded with my brother to climb down the tree to safety. That's what my brother did and in the end as soon as he was on the ground, he got a big row from my dad.
I'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
I'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
Edinburger said:
When I was a wee boy, I remember one day my brother climbed up a huge tree. He was perched on a branch and was threatening to jump and I remember my dad teling him that if he did then he'd break his legs and really hurt himself and he pleaded with my brother to climb down the tree to safety. That's what my brother did and in the end as soon as he was on the ground, he got a big row from my dad.
I'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
There has always been those who would gladly see the back of ScotlandI'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
This is not a new thing
However
In your little tale your brother (the SNP) are saying they are going straight back up the tree and are going to jump despite everyone deciding it is a bad idea
The UK and big business are merely moving the car so your brother doesn't land on it
If your brother (the SNP) were not screaming they were going to jump anyway big business would not be moving the car.
Seeing the 45% wkers have said we will be independent within a decade and have completely ignored the edinburgh agreement then it is a wise decision to walk away from doing business in Scotland
Don't forget you thought the SNP financial plan was guff so you voted NO
Since then the oil price has crashed and made things worse
You think it is wise to invest in a country where the leadership are dedicated to committing financial suicide by leaving the UK despite 62% of the population not voting to leave the UK?
Edited by McWigglebum4th on Monday 5th January 07:53
andymadmak said:
That can only be bad for jobs and the wider Scottish economy. I would expect to see a combination of a slow, inexorable relocation of skilled jobs back south of the border, and the provision of such contingencies as may be required to ensure that any future YES vote would have minimal impact on the rUK, both operationally and financially. To do anything else would represent a complete abdication of responsibility towards the population of rUK by the Government, and an unacceptable gambling of shareholders funds by the Directors of private companies.
Although I agree that this is what the private sector is likely to do what about the public sector.I can see the Conservatives following this idea, but I fear that Labour may add public sector jobs and procurement to Scottish companies in an effort to buy votes North of the border.
Edinburger said:
When I was a wee boy, I remember one day my brother climbed up a huge tree. He was perched on a branch and was threatening to jump and I remember my dad teling him that if he did then he'd break his legs and really hurt himself and he pleaded with my brother to climb down the tree to safety. That's what my brother did and in the end as soon as he was on the ground, he got a big row from my dad.
I'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
Let's try it this way.I'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
Imagine you run a business - selling financial products over the phone to Joe Public.
All of your staff (250) are based in Cumbernauld.
However - 80% of your customers are based south of Birmingham
Are you really telling me - that you wouldn't be concerned - and you wouldn't mitigate the risk?
Edinburger said:
When I was a wee boy, I remember one day my brother climbed up a huge tree. He was perched on a branch and was threatening to jump and I remember my dad teling him that if he did then he'd break his legs and really hurt himself and he pleaded with my brother to climb down the tree to safety. That's what my brother did and in the end as soon as he was on the ground, he got a big row from my dad.
I'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
Rather than "we need you" I recall the starting point as being stay with us, together we are more than the sum of our separate parts but if you insist on going at least be honest with yourselves what difficulties you will or may face.I'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
In the light of the SNP stance of still pursuing independence regardless of the outcome of the vote, it would be foolish for any part of the Union to fail to prepare for what may be ahead for all of us. Perhaps you think that being prepared for independence is something that only applies to Scotland?
I wonder if for some Scots it is is thought that it would be like when you leave home for the first time.
I bought my first house, despite being 150 miles away my parents came and helped me move in, gave me stuff to get me started, sorted me out with a problem or whatever. Would it have have been expected as being the same?
Because there was an awful lot of anti UK venom going on in the SNP, lots of lies and insults being made, it would be utterly bizarre of anyone coming out of it south of the border to think it's OK, sweet little SNPs - we love them really. Sure, the majority in Scotland didn't support them either but arguably it is how little it has caused impact on Scotland from the UK that people should be surprised by.
I bought my first house, despite being 150 miles away my parents came and helped me move in, gave me stuff to get me started, sorted me out with a problem or whatever. Would it have have been expected as being the same?
Because there was an awful lot of anti UK venom going on in the SNP, lots of lies and insults being made, it would be utterly bizarre of anyone coming out of it south of the border to think it's OK, sweet little SNPs - we love them really. Sure, the majority in Scotland didn't support them either but arguably it is how little it has caused impact on Scotland from the UK that people should be surprised by.
McWigglebum4th said:
Edinburger said:
When I was a wee boy, I remember one day my brother climbed up a huge tree. He was perched on a branch and was threatening to jump and I remember my dad teling him that if he did then he'd break his legs and really hurt himself and he pleaded with my brother to climb down the tree to safety. That's what my brother did and in the end as soon as he was on the ground, he got a big row from my dad.
I'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
In your little tale your brother (the SNP) are saying they are going straight back up the tree and are going to jump despite everyone deciding it is a bad ideaI'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
The UK and big business are merely moving the car so your brother doesn't land on it
Trust you Edinburger to want your cake and eat it. What on earth is rUK supposed to do, what on earth is business supposed to do when the SNP and its followers have reneged on their commitment to honour the result of the referendum?
Edinburger said:
When I was a wee boy, I remember one day my brother climbed up a huge tree. He was perched on a branch and was threatening to jump and I remember my dad teling him that if he did then he'd break his legs and really hurt himself and he pleaded with my brother to climb down the tree to safety. That's what my brother did and in the end as soon as he was on the ground, he got a big row from my dad.
I'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
I had a similar brother, father and tree.I'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
When I was a small boy, I remember one day my brother climbed up a huge tree. He was perched on a branch and was threatening to jump and I remember my dad telling him that if he did then it would really hurt. My brother being a slightly idiotic and stubborn child ignored the advice and jumped. No surprise it didn't go well and he was laying on the floor crying but the rest of the family just stood a laughed at him. My father told him "next time listen to advice, digest it and use it to make an informed decision rather than a rash and petulant one. However which ever decision you finally make, right or wrong, be a man and don't whine about it if it goes badly."
A valuable life lesson!
Edited by Grumfutock on Monday 5th January 10:52
Edinburger said:
When I was a wee boy, I remember one day my brother climbed up a huge tree. He was perched on a branch and was threatening to jump and I remember my dad teling him that if he did then he'd break his legs and really hurt himself and he pleaded with my brother to climb down the tree to safety. That's what my brother did and in the end as soon as he was on the ground, he got a big row from my dad.
I'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
So was that good or bad parenting from your old man?I'm reminded of that incident from the last few pages I've read here - it's gone from "stay with us, we need you" to "fk you Scotland, if you're going to show that sort of impudence we'll fk you up so you can't do it again or if you do then we'll be ready so it's not such a big deal to us".
Charming.
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