Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[Edinburger]

BlackLabel said:

Ruth Davidson should have been given the the chance to run for the Kensington & Chelsea seat. She's really impressive and as a Tory is fighting a lost cause in Scotland.

Seriously? That's a naiive comment.

[Edinburger]

McWigglebum4th said:

I agree

If she and those like her were leading the independence movement i might of voted YES



I am not against independence

I am deeply against the free workers republic of salmondovia which the nationalists want

Really, Beefy? You should have mentioned that before...

[McWigglebum4th]

Edinburger said:

Always rejected the SNP? Explain their landslide victory in the last election? Won a majority in a system designed to never allow a majority?

As the SNP are tapping into the distrust and dislike of the westminister parties

They are identical to UKIP in their appeal

Blame those to the south

[McWigglebum4th]

Edinburger said:

Really, Beefy? You should have mentioned that before...

So why did you vote NO?

Oh yeah

You didn't believe in the free everything mantra that was being sold



Why did i vote NO

Because i don't believe in the free everything mantra that was being sold.

Just i am also deeply against everything must be controlled by the government mantra coming from the SNP. Which is why i started a thread in the scottish forum moaning about the over zealous policing on the A90.

[Rick_1138]

I didn't see the debates last night as was out, but seeing the news today just makes my heart sink, hearing Jim Murphy just prove to be a bit useless was bad enough but hearing Sturgeon all but say 2016 Holyrood Manifesto will have Indy Vote round 2 made me despair at this countries future.

So its keep having them till they get what they want, only THEN will it be the 'settled will of the Scottish people'

I fking hate the SNP and all they stand for, hey just want to ruin Scotland on the ticket of wanting to make it 'Fair', but it will in fact be anything but.

[Welshbeef]

Edinburger said:

Welshbeef said:

simoid said:

The majority in Scotland have always rejected the SNP.

Exactly it's just the same as Tory votes last time 19% v 22%

Always rejected the SNP? Explain their landslide victory in the last election? Won a majority in a system designed to never allow a majority?

If 22% of the voting population is a landslide what is 19%? I guess convincing would be a fair.


Anyway I'm struggling with the view that 22% of the settled will of the Scottish people represents a landslide - given in UK as a whole Tory are currently polling 36% ish in some polls what do you call that tectonic plate movement?

[McWigglebum4th]

Rick_1138 said:

I didn't see the debates last night as was out, but seeing the news today just makes my heart sink, hearing Jim Murphy just prove to be a bit useless was bad enough but hearing Sturgeon all but say 2016 Holyrood Manifesto will have Indy Vote round 2 made me despair at this countries future.

So its keep having them till they get what they want, only THEN will it be the 'settled will of the Scottish people'

I fking hate the SNP and all they stand for, hey just want to ruin Scotland on the ticket of wanting to make it 'Fair', but it will in fact be anything but.

They will be delighted when big business has abandoned scotland

Look at the replys from stroppy where he admits it is the plan

Create more poverty and get independence

[James P]

Edinburger said:

0a said:

There seems to be a lack of awareness about business or wealth generation in Scotland. I'm currently watching Scotland today where whoever pledges the most spending seems to be judged "best".

As an example it's seen as great how the elderly want to see a much higher living wage AND the young want to see higher pensions - seen as a great thing for Scottish society all round that we all want more spent on everyone.

Realism seems to be severely lacking in all the parties here.

Or more likely, business or wealth generation in Scotland wasn't the point of that debate and would not make compelling viewing for most people which is why it wasn't discussed last night.

So either the politicians aren't interested in telling people where the money to spend comes from or the electorate aren't. If you do get an independent Scotland you better hope that someone starts to think about where they're going to get all the money they're promising to spend.

Alternatively, was this purely a popularity contest where the winner is the one who promises to spend the most money?

[IroningMan]

James P said:

So either the politicians aren't interested in telling people where the money to spend comes from or the electorate aren't. If you do get an independent Scotland you better hope that someone starts to think about where they're going to get all the money they're promising to spend.

Alternatively, was this purely a popularity contest where the winner is the one who promises to spend the most money?

They're going to get the money from us. They will demand 10% of the equivalent cash value of every UK institution/asset.

[barryrs]

IroningMan said:

They're going to get the money from us. They will demand 10% of the equivalent cash value of every UK institution/asset.

Thats fine; 90% of Scotlands coming our way then

[Welshbeef]

Welshbeef said:

If 22% of the voting population is a landslide what is 19%? I guess convincing would be a fair.


Anyway I'm struggling with the view that 22% of the settled will of the Scottish people represents a landslide - given in UK as a whole Tory are currently polling 36% ish in some polls what do you call that tectonic plate movement?

Burger awaiting response

[Strocky]

Interesting couple of articles regarding the future of the Union

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/29/thre...

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/04/08/engerland-...

[andymadmak]

Strocky said:

Interesting couple of articles regarding the future of the Union

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/29/thre...

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/04/08/engerland-...

Not really. In particular the bellacaledonia article is a thinly veiled attack in which the author, having first gone over the top to show that "some of his best friends are English", then proceeds to find endless ways to blame the right wing - and by his extension the English- who, in his opinion, are actually to blame for the SNP and all that flows from it. When he runs up against the thorny subject of the midlands and northern industrial areas (thorny because it actually shoots his own theory to bits) he then finds novel ways to back track and obfuscate.
Where he feels confident that his audience will lap up his tosh without challenge (i.e., his references to English Shires, the South East etc) then the true scope and scale of his bigotry is allowed to shine through.
Even the supposed anecdote about the friend asking about how scots will be treated post independence has a ring of fiction about it. But then again we are talking about an article in bellacaledonia - the comments beneath which tell you everything you need to know about your average Nat.

As for the Guardian article.......

[Sway]

Check out the author of the Bellacaledonia piece - someone very well versed in fiction...

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

Welshbeef said:

simoid said:

The majority in Scotland have always rejected the SNP.

Exactly it's just the same as Tory votes last time 19% v 22%

Always rejected the SNP? Explain their landslide victory in the last election? Won a majority in a system designed to never allow a majority?

Enough of your SNP propaganda.

The majority of voters rejected the SNP, ie did not vote for the SNP. The majority voted for candidates not standing for the SNP. More people voted for a non-SNP candidate than SNP candidates. The SNP won a minority of the votes. The SNP did not achieve >50% of the votes.

The SNP won a similar share of the vote in 2011 as the yes vote in 2014.

Do any of them make sense?

[Moonhawk]

simoid said:

The majority of voters rejected the SNP, ie did not vote for the SNP. The majority voted for candidates not standing for the SNP. More people voted for a non-SNP candidate than SNP candidates. The SNP won a minority of the votes. The SNP did not achieve >50% of the votes.

The SNP won a similar share of the vote in 2011 as the yes vote in 2014.

Yep - they got 75% of the available seats off only 45% of the popular vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/election2011/ove...

[///ajd]

Strocky said:

Interesting couple of articles regarding the future of the Union

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/29/thre...

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/04/08/engerland-...

It is hilarious to see how bigoted that bellacaledonia piece is - and how blissfully unaware the author is of his own bigotry whilst accusing others.

People who try and sound all educated and intelluctual when referring to what things were like in 1707 only confirm one thing - they are themseves weak minded sheep who lap up any lame propaganda that fuels their own bigotry.

---
Example:

Moron said: "This brought home to me that the country (with all the usual caveats and exceptions) had grabbed with both hands the opportunity the campaign afforded it to grow from being the least, to the most, politically mature part of the UK."

Moron thinks "we are better than you".

Moron is a Nationalist.

[BlackLabel]

rovermorris999 said:

This worth a read
http://www.capx.co/scotland-has-gone-mad/

It could be written about much of the debate in here.

article said:

As the journalist Bruce Anderson wrote at the weekend, ‘the Scottish Enlightenment represented the triumph of rationalism, always in a calm and restrained fashion. Its philosophers and economists believed in using reason to improve the human condition, not to reshape human nature’. Our separatist movement isn’t violent, thank goodness, but it is bluntly dumb, faith-based and irrational. Unenlightened. And increasingly, it feels like it is dragging all of Scotland down to its level. What, I wonder, would Adam Smith or David Hume make of what has become of their once world-beating little nation?

[McWigglebum4th]

I see aberdeen university is having to make cuts due to tory scum in westminster crippling the true warriors of scotland

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-o...

[///ajd]

McWigglebum4th said:

I see aberdeen university is having to make cuts due to tory scum in westminster crippling the true warriors of scotland

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-o...

Probably because the UK education budget frm taxation is starting to be reduced by the income from student loans from the england tuition fees.

Block grant rules would mean there is less money in the future for Scot unis vs england Unis as they don't have this tuition fee repyament as future income - as their tuition were given away free by the SNP with no thought for thr future.

That would only be fair, right? Taxpayers in England are paying far far more for their Uni than those in Scotland after all.