Hong kong protests - Huge
Discussion
China has very bad debt problems - https://nationalinterest.org/feature/chinas-debt-d...
Growth halving each year - http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/WP_SITEURL/blogs...
overall debt mountain to an all-time high of over US$69 trillion in the first quarter of 2019. - https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article...
It's no wonder they are are going all out to get hold and control of HK and other areas.
Growth halving each year - http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/WP_SITEURL/blogs...
overall debt mountain to an all-time high of over US$69 trillion in the first quarter of 2019. - https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article...
It's no wonder they are are going all out to get hold and control of HK and other areas.
dudleybloke said:
There has been some quite extreme violence by groups of white-shirted mainlanders in the province recently. They have been attacking protesters with weapons and ambushing people in train stations.
Unconfirmed reports of Chinese military massing near the Hong Kong border now too.
Why would they need to mass near the border? It's not as if it's defended.Unconfirmed reports of Chinese military massing near the Hong Kong border now too.
Looking at the long term direction HK is heading towards, it looks increasingly wrong for UK to not offer all HK residents at hand over the choice to move to the UK.
I would back offering this to them now, as its looking like China is likely to send in the heavies and renege on their commitments.
I would back offering this to them now, as its looking like China is likely to send in the heavies and renege on their commitments.
jsf said:
Looking at the long term direction HK is heading towards, it looks increasingly wrong for UK to not offer all HK residents at hand over the choice to move to the UK.
I would back offering this to them now, as its looking like China is likely to send in the heavies and renege on their commitments.
Not so sure myself.I would back offering this to them now, as its looking like China is likely to send in the heavies and renege on their commitments.
Stay and reap the benefits while everything is hunky dory but get privilege to depart when not?
Writing has been on the wall since handover. And the protestors are biting off more than they can (and should have tried to) chew.
Mate of mine lives over there (Brit). He thought even pushing the extradition stuff was unnecessary and would lead to issues. He's very damning of the latest protests. Others I know have said similar (I lived there for 6mths....great time. Not sure how or even if my liver survived
).I doubt the Chinese government will go to the nth degree there. They know that little part of their world earns a pot of cash.
jsf said:
Murph7355 said:
Not so sure myself.
Stay and reap the benefits while everything is hunky dory but get privilege to depart when not?
They weren't given the choice, which i think was a mistake by UK government. Stay and reap the benefits while everything is hunky dory but get privilege to depart when not?
Thatcher knew the joint agreement was worthless (as we’ve seen) but simply wouldn’t grand right of abode to hong kong citizens.
It was very unpopular in hong kong and was one of thatchers biggest mistakes.
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2017/07/22/declassified...
El stovey said:
jsf said:
Murph7355 said:
Not so sure myself.
Stay and reap the benefits while everything is hunky dory but get privilege to depart when not?
They weren't given the choice, which i think was a mistake by UK government. Stay and reap the benefits while everything is hunky dory but get privilege to depart when not?
Thatcher knew the joint agreement was worthless (as we’ve seen) but simply wouldn’t grand right of abode to hong kong citizens.
It was very unpopular in hong kong and was one of thatchers biggest mistakes.
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2017/07/22/declassified...
Am also not convinced anything truly binding/revolutionary could have been done on handover agreements in the circumstances.
It feels to me a little like people have stuck their heads in the sand pretending nothing at all had changed... And are now getting upset about it and, perhaps, not venting in a sensible way.
Murph7355 said:
Again though, it's not like what would happen hadn't been signalled years and years in advance. If people wanted to leave/protect themselves they had plenty of opportunity to do so.
Am also not convinced anything truly binding/revolutionary could have been done on handover agreements in the circumstances.
It feels to me a little like people have stuck their heads in the sand pretending nothing at all had changed... And are now getting upset about it and, perhaps, not venting in a sensible way.
How could they “leave protect themselves”? many of the ones that could did and some who were able came to the U.K. whilst others went to Canada. Am also not convinced anything truly binding/revolutionary could have been done on handover agreements in the circumstances.
It feels to me a little like people have stuck their heads in the sand pretending nothing at all had changed... And are now getting upset about it and, perhaps, not venting in a sensible way.
The difference in the handover agreement should have been to offer Hong Kong residents right of abode in the U.K. before the handover.
Thatcher (and Hurd) only offered 50,000 Hong Kong residents right of abode in the U.K. the conservatives wanted it reduced to 30,000. This was in 1990, just one year after the Tiananmen square massacre.
Labour stuck to this figure despite pleas from Patten (the governor) leading up to the handover. Jack Straw refused to budge, even blaming Patten for making handover arrangements that left Hong Kong people worried about their future.
ash73 said:
El stovey said:
The difference in the handover agreement should have been to offer Hong Kong residents right of abode in the U.K. before the handover.
How many? All 7.5 million of them? Or "just" the 3.5 million BNO passport holders?Protesters using lasers to dazzle facial recognition systems.
https://twitter.com/alessabocchi/status/1156513770...
https://twitter.com/alessabocchi/status/1156513770...
Supersam83 said:
Now Hong Kong International Airport has cancelled all flights.
Any chance the UK put in a clause into the handover agreement that gave it back to the UK if something like this happened?
In John Major's government? He signed away our freedom there's no chance in hell he did anything for Hong Kong.Any chance the UK put in a clause into the handover agreement that gave it back to the UK if something like this happened?
FourWheelDrift said:
Supersam83 said:
Now Hong Kong International Airport has cancelled all flights.
Any chance the UK put in a clause into the handover agreement that gave it back to the UK if something like this happened?
In John Major's government? He signed away our freedom there's no chance in hell he did anything for Hong Kong.Any chance the UK put in a clause into the handover agreement that gave it back to the UK if something like this happened?
Opening lines of the Agreement
[quote]1.The Government of the People's Republic of China declares that to recover the Hong Kong area (including Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and the New Territories, hereinafter referred to as Hong Kong) is the common aspiration of the entire Chinese people, and that it has decided to resume the exercise of sovereignty over Hong Kong with effect from 1 July 1997.
2.The Government of the United Kingdom declares that it will restore Hong Kong to the People's Republic of China with effect from 1 July 1997
We could have dug our heals in, dynamited the bay tunnel, and clung on to HK island. But it would have ended in a Chinese tank crashing through the gates of Governor House, in a repeat of Saigon. China did not need our agreement to reclaim HK.
And previously in HK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJaoi0yTVoQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnvCwv3uwbc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxZrfVWBxZI
Those wooden rounds fired were 7", and I suspect not balsa wood.
China recently locked up over 1 million people - in one of the largest mass incarcerations since the Holocaust - in internment camps in order to “re-educate” them. And the global community could not do anything to stop it.
The same will be the case with Hong Kong - whatever route the Chinese choose to go down, they’ll do it with impunity.
The same will be the case with Hong Kong - whatever route the Chinese choose to go down, they’ll do it with impunity.
Hong Kong is Chinese. They have some interim temporary democracy but China is in charge and people are complaining about how these interim measures have been followed and new proposed deportation measures and what will actually happen when these interim measures end and China officially takes over fully.
I’m actually surprised by the amount of restraint China has shown so far.
Hong Kong won’t get some kind of permanent independence though or an extension to these temporary legislative measures in place now, which is probably what these protesters are hoping for.
I’m actually surprised by the amount of restraint China has shown so far.
Hong Kong won’t get some kind of permanent independence though or an extension to these temporary legislative measures in place now, which is probably what these protesters are hoping for.
AP News 1996 said:
Prime Minister John Major, seeking to dispel the notion that Britain’s role in Hong Kong is over, gave an unequivocal pledge today to hold China to its commitments after it recovers the colony next year.
"Hong Kong will never have to walk alone,? he promised. If China breached the 1984 treaty it signed with Britain on the handover of Hong Kong, we would mobilise the international community and pursue every legal and other avenue available to us,? he said in a speech to Hong Kong business leaders.
"We are prepared to guarantee, repeat to guarantee, admission and settlement if at any time after July 1, 1997, they were to come under pressure to leave Hong Kong,? he said.
https://www.apnews.com/a9835c28b911954a02cb1303ca5..."Hong Kong will never have to walk alone,? he promised. If China breached the 1984 treaty it signed with Britain on the handover of Hong Kong, we would mobilise the international community and pursue every legal and other avenue available to us,? he said in a speech to Hong Kong business leaders.
"We are prepared to guarantee, repeat to guarantee, admission and settlement if at any time after July 1, 1997, they were to come under pressure to leave Hong Kong,? he said.
Instead it seems we've armed the chinese with the tools to use against the protesters - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug...
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff