scotland to reduce Drink Drive limit
Discussion
The current limit very much reminds me of this quote from C.S. Lewis. It may have been mentioned previously in the thread, not going to read the whole thing.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good
of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live
under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies.
The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may
at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end for they do so with the approval
of their own conscience."
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good
of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live
under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies.
The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may
at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end for they do so with the approval
of their own conscience."
I'm confused.
The nice man on the radio said the drink drive limit is "much less than a nip of whisky". I understand a nip of whisky to be a single, so 25 or 35ml. Even at the latter, that's only 1.4 units of alcohol.
Shirley that's nonsense, or have I got something wrong?
Or is the radio man scaremongerering?
The nice man on the radio said the drink drive limit is "much less than a nip of whisky". I understand a nip of whisky to be a single, so 25 or 35ml. Even at the latter, that's only 1.4 units of alcohol.
Shirley that's nonsense, or have I got something wrong?
Or is the radio man scaremongerering?
I think the Police, Press and Media in general are talking s
t about this.
Just got back from Germany, which has the same limit as us and explained how we've had it rammed down our throats that one beer will instantly turn us into a KILLER and a DANGER on our roads.
They laughed and said they more than comfortably drink 2-3 500ml beers at 5% and are within the limit.
Their opinion was that an average bloke, not rushing would be more than ok with 2.
So it looks like I have no need to worry about my post-sailing pint in the clubhouse or anything too serious.
t about this.Just got back from Germany, which has the same limit as us and explained how we've had it rammed down our throats that one beer will instantly turn us into a KILLER and a DANGER on our roads.
They laughed and said they more than comfortably drink 2-3 500ml beers at 5% and are within the limit.
Their opinion was that an average bloke, not rushing would be more than ok with 2.
So it looks like I have no need to worry about my post-sailing pint in the clubhouse or anything too serious.
if you drank 1.5 liters of Beer at 5% I doubt you would be under the limit if its same as ours so thats a bit odd was your post saying in germany they do not see drinking an driving as a big issue. I am not sure if one has 2 beers they could suddenly not drive but again its about risk reduction so set the limit low an then things might be a bit safer. People will still die on the roads of course just from other things (IIRC road deathes are about 2100 a year and have not changed much since the late 90's)
Gecko1978 said:
if you drank 1.5 liters of Beer at 5% I doubt you would be under the limit if its same as ours so thats a bit odd was your post saying in germany they do not see drinking an driving as a big issue. I am not sure if one has 2 beers they could suddenly not drive but again its about risk reduction so set the limit low an then things might be a bit safer. People will still die on the roads of course just from other things (IIRC road deathes are about 2100 a year and have not changed much since the late 90's)
No, I was saying that in Germany, the same limit as in Scotland is generally regarded as meaning 2 beers, maybe 3 if over a longer period or with food. Obviously this doesn't take into account different people and they metabolisms but is just a rule of thumb, but they would be shocked to hear an average man was over the limit after a litre.Whereas in Scotland we have been told that even the merest hint of alcohol will make us fail a breathalyser test and lead to the fall of civilisation.
I'm suggesting that the press and govt and police may be slightly over-egging the pudding to drive compliance, and that people who feel their habits are under-threat may wish to do a bit of independent research.
Ok I see, from bitter experience I know you can drink an awful lot an still only just be over the limit or just under it the fact is people are different so 1 pint of Stella for one person will have a markedly different effect on the reading to anthter person and such 2 pints and 3 etc will again have different effects.
Personally I adopt a zero drink if I am driving policy (but did not always do that). End of the day laws the law you choose to abide by it or not.
I still don't think even if the limnit was zero and everyone adheared to that road deathgs would fall much below there current rates 9not a message someone who has lost a family member wants to hear etc) but my feeling is there is an Omega point below which we will not go so enough journeys by car an sooner or later someone dies but that number is very small.
Personally I adopt a zero drink if I am driving policy (but did not always do that). End of the day laws the law you choose to abide by it or not.
I still don't think even if the limnit was zero and everyone adheared to that road deathgs would fall much below there current rates 9not a message someone who has lost a family member wants to hear etc) but my feeling is there is an Omega point below which we will not go so enough journeys by car an sooner or later someone dies but that number is very small.
Gecko1978 said:
Ok I see, from bitter experience I know you can drink an awful lot an still only just be over the limit or just under it the fact is people are different so 1 pint of Stella for one person will have a markedly different effect on the reading to anthter person and such 2 pints and 3 etc will again have different effects.
Personally I adopt a zero drink if I am driving policy (but did not always do that). End of the day laws the law you choose to abide by it or not.
I still don't think even if the limnit was zero and everyone adheared to that road deathgs would fall much below there current rates 9not a message someone who has lost a family member wants to hear etc) but my feeling is there is an Omega point below which we will not go so enough journeys by car an sooner or later someone dies but that number is very small.
I agree completely. Anecdotally, the only people I know affected by the change are broadly 'responsible' individuals who in the past may have had one with dinner/after some activity. I don't really see these people as a risk over and above the background risk of driving anyway.Personally I adopt a zero drink if I am driving policy (but did not always do that). End of the day laws the law you choose to abide by it or not.
I still don't think even if the limnit was zero and everyone adheared to that road deathgs would fall much below there current rates 9not a message someone who has lost a family member wants to hear etc) but my feeling is there is an Omega point below which we will not go so enough journeys by car an sooner or later someone dies but that number is very small.
The piss-heads who drive home after 9 or 10 still will, I expect.
I think people should be given the responsibility to set the own limits within the law but would ask for a touch more honesty from the powers that be to allow people to make those decisions safely.
As an aside, can you ask a bobby for a breathalyser if you're on foot as a sort of 'tester'??
Re asking for a tester I think if you had keys in your hand an went up to the PC an asked an were over the limit your act of social resposibility might be a breach of the law as having the keys would mean driving or not you were in charge of the vechicle. However if your that worried you can by a breathaliser or simply do a bit of research an count the units. Best advice drive don't drink drink don't drive etc.
It will be interesting to see if road deaths fall in scotland at all
It will be interesting to see if road deaths fall in scotland at all
Gecko1978 said:
Ok I see, from bitter experience I know you can drink an awful lot an still only just be over the limit or just under it the fact is people are different so 1 pint of Stella for one person will have a markedly different effect on the reading to anthter person and such 2 pints and 3 etc will again have different effects.
This is all down to absorption in the gut - the 1 unit = 15mg equation assumes that all of the alcohol you take in gets absorbed, so in theory, 15mg is the maximum BAC you will ever reach after 1 unit - but in reality, this figure will be lower, depending on a number of factors. This is how you hear about people having 4 pints and blowing under, and will be why the Germans in question didn't see the issue. You also have to factor in the rate your liver processes it - on the course I attended this was quoted as a constant 1 unit per hour for everyone.However it is impossible to tell just how much your gut will absorb at any one time, so I find it best to use the 1 unit = 15 mg rule of thumb, and wouldn't drive down here in England after more than 2 pints of normal strength lager.
Actually thinking about it, I have a couple of those breathalysers they make you buy for driving in France in the car - I sense an experiment
bodhi said:
...However it is impossible to tell just how much your gut will absorb at any one time, so I find it best to use the 1 unit = 15 mg rule of thumb, and wouldn't drive down here in England after more than 2 pints of normal strength lager.
Actually thinking about it, I have a couple of those breathalysers they make you buy for driving in France in the car - I sense an experiment
I'm in Scotland & reasonably remote. I have a fairly decent breathaliser. ½Pt of Best whilst waiting for a takeaway takes me to 15mg by the time I'm home. Meaning I would not chance a Pint anymore. (Shame as this was often enjoyed after swimming etc & I only ever had one)Actually thinking about it, I have a couple of those breathalysers they make you buy for driving in France in the car - I sense an experiment
Lots of friends are quoting various tables stating how much they can drink or when they'll be ok the next day (What most folks fear) but I know from using this machine you cannot predict with any reaonable confidence - there are so many factors that influence it.
I'd love there to be a half way penaly of say 3points & £250 for being between the Old & New Limits to at least give a small bit of reasurance that a simple error would not end up costing me my Job or a significant lifesyle adjustment.
But I've been told, as crazy as it sounds, "The Law lets Scotland change the limit, but not the Penalty", my hope is therfore the rest of the UK adopts some halfway measure in the future.
Gecko1978 said:
It will be interesting to see if road deaths fall in scotland at all
In the same vein, if a couple of fatacs occur with the drivers blowing just over the new limit, has it failed...not necessarily.
With dangerously drunk drivers often being way over the old limit never mind the new one, it will be interesting to follow the accident+dd numbers over the next 5 years or so. It's doubtful that somebody prepared to go out on the road 3x or 4x over the old limit will be bothered by the change to a new one.
turbobloke said:
Not after just one year though, there is statistical variation involved with several other variables. Any old drop in the data could not be causally linked to the new limit, but would naturally be very welcome.
In the same vein, if a couple of fatacs occur with the drivers blowing just over the new limit, has it failed...not necessarily.
If deaths go down = Total success and yet another reason for independenceIn the same vein, if a couple of fatacs occur with the drivers blowing just over the new limit, has it failed...not necessarily.
If deaths go up = Westminster oppression and yet another reason for independence
McWigglebum4th said:
If deaths go down = Total success and yet another reason for independence
If deaths go up = Westminster oppression and yet another reason for independence
Scottish thread = reason for Mcwigglebum4th to have his usual whinge.If deaths go up = Westminster oppression and yet another reason for independence
Honestly, it's time to give a rest. Nobody has a record collection as big as you.
Why do you continuously have to turn every single thread into an anti-independence slant or have a go at the Scottish?
You're beyond pathetic and still relentless.
Driver101 said:
Scottish thread = reason for Mcwigglebum4th to have his usual whinge.
Honestly, it's time to give a rest. Nobody has a record collection as big as you.
Why do you continuously have to turn every single thread into an anti-independence slant or have a go at the Scottish?
You're beyond pathetic and still relentless.
I am not having a go at the scottishHonestly, it's time to give a rest. Nobody has a record collection as big as you.
Why do you continuously have to turn every single thread into an anti-independence slant or have a go at the Scottish?
You're beyond pathetic and still relentless.
I am having a go at the SNP and the independence at any cost and any excuse bunch of a
holesA 19% drop in drivers over the limit over Christmas/New Year period compared with last year.
This is being attributed to the lower limit, but surely if the limit had been higher, even less drivers would have been over the limit.
I realise that some drivers will have been more cautious due to the new limit and misinformation indicating that a single drink will put us over the new limit.
This is being attributed to the lower limit, but surely if the limit had been higher, even less drivers would have been over the limit.
I realise that some drivers will have been more cautious due to the new limit and misinformation indicating that a single drink will put us over the new limit.
hidetheelephants said:
There was a longer segment about this on the news a couple of days ago, the number of proper drunks caught at multiples over the limit is unchanged; I feel so much safer, what a worthwhile expenditure of government time.
It was always going to be that way.Nobody ever ploughed a car through a shop window after having a pint with dinner. And if they did, I'd suggest they were going to anyway.
In other news, I had a pint with my lunch on Saturday and drove home later without incident.
Corpulent Tosser said:
A 19% drop in drivers over the limit over Christmas/New Year period compared with last year.
This is being attributed to the lower limit, but surely if the limit had been higher, even less drivers would have been over the limit.
I realise that some drivers will have been more cautious due to the new limit and misinformation indicating that a single drink will put us over the new limit.
What's happened to the accident rate?This is being attributed to the lower limit, but surely if the limit had been higher, even less drivers would have been over the limit.
I realise that some drivers will have been more cautious due to the new limit and misinformation indicating that a single drink will put us over the new limit.
Year Road accident fatalities % change from previous year
2000 3,409 -0.4
2001 3,450 1.2
2002 3,431 -0.6
2003 3,508 2.2
2004 3,221 -8.2
2005 3,201 -0.6
2006 3,175 -0.9
2007 2,946 -7.1
2008 2,538 -13.8
2009 2,222 -12.5
2010 1,850 -16.7
2011 1,901 2.8
2012* 1,754 -7.7
2013 1,713 -2.3
2000 3,409 -0.4
2001 3,450 1.2
2002 3,431 -0.6
2003 3,508 2.2
2004 3,221 -8.2
2005 3,201 -0.6
2006 3,175 -0.9
2007 2,946 -7.1
2008 2,538 -13.8
2009 2,222 -12.5
2010 1,850 -16.7
2011 1,901 2.8
2012* 1,754 -7.7
2013 1,713 -2.3
- In 2012, 280 deaths were attributed to drink-driving. 400 deaths attributed to speeding.
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