Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 3
Discussion
don4l said:
Yesterday we had depressed dogs. Today we have overbreeding cats.
Is there anything that the won't attribute to AGW?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/02/09/reduce-co2-o...
It's longer flights to the US in today's BBC. I can't be arsed to link to it...Is there anything that the won't attribute to AGW?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/02/09/reduce-co2-o...
jshell said:
don4l said:
Yesterday we had depressed dogs. Today we have overbreeding cats.
Is there anything that the won't attribute to AGW?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/02/09/reduce-co2-o...
It's longer flights to the US in today's BBC. I can't be arsed to link to it...Is there anything that the won't attribute to AGW?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/02/09/reduce-co2-o...
Obama climate initiative: Supreme Court calls halt :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3553...
President Barack Obama's plans to regulate emissions of carbon dioxide from US power plants have been stalled by the US Supreme Court.
The court ruled that the president's Clean Power Plan could not go forward until all legal challenges were heard.
Designed to cut US emissions by 32% by 2030, the scheme put huge emphasis on a shift to renewable energy.
It formed the key element of the US pledge at UN climate negotiations held in Paris in December last year.
This could be fun !!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3553...
President Barack Obama's plans to regulate emissions of carbon dioxide from US power plants have been stalled by the US Supreme Court.
The court ruled that the president's Clean Power Plan could not go forward until all legal challenges were heard.
Designed to cut US emissions by 32% by 2030, the scheme put huge emphasis on a shift to renewable energy.
It formed the key element of the US pledge at UN climate negotiations held in Paris in December last year.
This could be fun !!
PRTVR said:
jshell said:
don4l said:
Yesterday we had depressed dogs. Today we have overbreeding cats.
Is there anything that the won't attribute to AGW?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/02/09/reduce-co2-o...
It's longer flights to the US in today's BBC. I can't be arsed to link to it...Is there anything that the won't attribute to AGW?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/02/09/reduce-co2-o...
Flights from the UK to the US could take longer due to the changes in the climate, according to a new study.
Global warming is likely to speed up the jet stream, say researchers, and slow down airplanes heading for the US.
While eastbound flights from the US will be quicker, roundtrip journeys will "significantly lengthen".
The University of Reading scientists believe the changes will increase carbon emissions and fuel consumption and potentially raise ticket prices.
The study has been published in the journal Environmental Research Letters.
Speedy streams
High altitude jet streams in the northern and southern hemisphere are the powerful winds that help move weather systems around the globe.
Air traffic normally tries to take advantage of these speedy flows of the Atlantic jet stream from west to east to reduce journey times on routes between Europe and North America.
This is one of the world's busiest routes with around 600 flights every day.
Previous studies have shown that climate change is likely to increase turbulence on these transatlantic flights. In this new study researchers MODELLED how atmospheric winds would change given a doubling of atmospheric CO2.
They fed the results into the same route algorithms that airlines routinely use to plan their transatlantic journeys.
They found that the winds on the New York to London route will become 15% faster on average.
Flights from London will become twice as likely to take over seven hours while flights from New York will speed up and will become twice as likely to take under five hours and 20 minutes.
While on average, flights will only gain and lose a few minutes each way, the cumulative impact is "significant" says the study.
"If you look at the round trips, the eastbound flights are getting shorter by less than the westbound flights are getting longer," lead author Dr Paul Williams from the University of Reading told BBC News.
"So there is a robust increase in the round-trip journey time, which means planes spending longer in the air, when you add that up for all transatlantic aircraft you get an extra 2,000 hours of planes in the air every year, with $22 million extra in fuel costs and 70 million kg of CO2."
The researchers say the extra CO2 is the equivalent of the annual emissions of 7,000 British homes.
Blowing hot and cold
While at present there is no firm observational evidence of changes in the jet stream, scientists point to the fact that the record time for a non-Concorde flight from New York to London is currently 5 hours and 16 minutes, set in January last year.
"We know what drives the jet stream, it's the temperature difference between the warm tropical regions and the cold polar regions at flight levels," said Dr Williams.
"We understand what that temperature difference is going to do in response to global warming, it's increasing, we are very confident that the jet stream is increasing as a consequence."
The researchers believe that as well as worsening the environmental impacts of aviation, airlines are likely to increase ticket prices to cover their costs.
And while the study only applied to the London-New York route, the impacts on flights of changes in the jet streams are likely to be felt all over the world as these critical winds are found in both the northern and southern hemispheres.
Other scientists in this field welcomed the study.
"This study builds on the concept that my team published last year showing that there is a two-way relationship between climate change and air travel," said Dr Kristopher Karnauskas, from the University of Colorado, Boulder.
"I think these results are an important step forward in filling in the overall puzzle that is this intricate relationship that we humans have with the climate system."
Dr Gregor Leckebusch from the University of Birmingham said the study was sound and the findings were easy to comprehend.
"My meteorological basic instinct would exactly have predicted such a result (shorter eastbound times while longer westbound times), but it is difficult to quantify the net effect without a detailed study using a conceptual model and detailed computational efforts," he said.
Note the evil word MODELLED. says it al really. GIGO again
k. And these people get paid.robinessex said:
Here you go. Laughing out load isn't allowed !!!
Oh yes it is! Steaming pile said:
Flights from the UK to the US could take longer due to the changes in the climate, according to a new study.
Global warming is likely to speed up the jet stream say researchers, and slow down airplanes heading for the US.
Whoa. Not quite - hold it right there, Reading Uni.Global warming is likely to speed up the jet stream say researchers, and slow down airplanes heading for the US.
Report on another steaming pile said:
Scientists at the Carnegie Institution determined that over a 23-year span from 1979 to 2001 the jet streams in both hemispheres have risen in altitude and shifted toward the poles. The jet stream in the northern hemisphere has also weakened. These changes fit the predictions of global warming models.
So what is it: stronger i.e. faster, weaker i.e. slower, both, neither...These models are pretty damned amazing, they forecast every possibility on just about everything.
robinessex said:
Note the evil word MODELLED. says it al really. GIGO again
Meaning 'you see it, we can make it a feature of AGW, u-turns a speciality.'http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2016/02/a-full-ca...
"Terrifying" headline
Then you read on and find "some one made a model...."
And its the Antarctic which i though, had record amount of Ice of late?
"Terrifying" headline
Then you read on and find "some one made a model...."
And its the Antarctic which i though, had record amount of Ice of late?
LongQ said:
mybrainhurts said:
Andy Zarse said:
turbobloke said:
Imogen is on the way. Naming rain and wind was already a farce now it's getting tedious.
OMG radioactive death storm coming! We will all be murdered in our beds tomorrow morning by Storm Ibuprofen!! OMG!!!!25 to go ...
So it should come around about the end of April?
Einion Yrth said:
Jacobyte said:
And what pray is wrong with...Quentin
Ulysses
Xavier
Yolanda
and Zowie?
That will Strain the country....
robinessex said:
Here you go. Laughing out load isn't allowed !!!
Flights from the UK to the US could take longer due to the changes in the climate, according to a new study.
Global warming is likely to speed up the jet stream, say researchers, and slow down airplanes heading for the US.
While eastbound flights from the US will be quicker, roundtrip journeys will "significantly lengthen".
The University of Reading scientists believe the changes will increase carbon emissions and fuel consumption and potentially raise ticket prices.
The study has been published in the journal Environmental Research Letters.
Speedy streams
High altitude jet streams in the northern and southern hemisphere are the powerful winds that help move weather systems around the globe.
Air traffic normally tries to take advantage of these speedy flows of the Atlantic jet stream from west to east to reduce journey times on routes between Europe and North America.
This is one of the world's busiest routes with around 600 flights every day.
Previous studies have shown that climate change is likely to increase turbulence on these transatlantic flights. In this new study researchers MODELLED how atmospheric winds would change given a doubling of atmospheric CO2.
They fed the results into the same route algorithms that airlines routinely use to plan their transatlantic journeys.
They found that the winds on the New York to London route will become 15% faster on average.
Flights from London will become twice as likely to take over seven hours while flights from New York will speed up and will become twice as likely to take under five hours and 20 minutes.
While on average, flights will only gain and lose a few minutes each way, the cumulative impact is "significant" says the study.
"If you look at the round trips, the eastbound flights are getting shorter by less than the westbound flights are getting longer," lead author Dr Paul Williams from the University of Reading told BBC News.
"So there is a robust increase in the round-trip journey time, which means planes spending longer in the air, when you add that up for all transatlantic aircraft you get an extra 2,000 hours of planes in the air every year, with $22 million extra in fuel costs and 70 million kg of CO2."
The researchers say the extra CO2 is the equivalent of the annual emissions of 7,000 British homes.
Blowing hot and cold
While at present there is no firm observational evidence of changes in the jet stream, scientists point to the fact that the record time for a non-Concorde flight from New York to London is currently 5 hours and 16 minutes, set in January last year.
"We know what drives the jet stream, it's the temperature difference between the warm tropical regions and the cold polar regions at flight levels," said Dr Williams.
"We understand what that temperature difference is going to do in response to global warming, it's increasing, we are very confident that the jet stream is increasing as a consequence."
The researchers believe that as well as worsening the environmental impacts of aviation, airlines are likely to increase ticket prices to cover their costs.
And while the study only applied to the London-New York route, the impacts on flights of changes in the jet streams are likely to be felt all over the world as these critical winds are found in both the northern and southern hemispheres.
Other scientists in this field welcomed the study.
"This study builds on the concept that my team published last year showing that there is a two-way relationship between climate change and air travel," said Dr Kristopher Karnauskas, from the University of Colorado, Boulder.
"I think these results are an important step forward in filling in the overall puzzle that is this intricate relationship that we humans have with the climate system."
Dr Gregor Leckebusch from the University of Birmingham said the study was sound and the findings were easy to comprehend.
"My meteorological basic instinct would exactly have predicted such a result (shorter eastbound times while longer westbound times), but it is difficult to quantify the net effect without a detailed study using a conceptual model and detailed computational efforts," he said.
Note the evil word MODELLED. says it al really. GIGO again
How on Earth could any self respecting journal publish such dross is beyond me.Flights from the UK to the US could take longer due to the changes in the climate, according to a new study.
Global warming is likely to speed up the jet stream, say researchers, and slow down airplanes heading for the US.
While eastbound flights from the US will be quicker, roundtrip journeys will "significantly lengthen".
The University of Reading scientists believe the changes will increase carbon emissions and fuel consumption and potentially raise ticket prices.
The study has been published in the journal Environmental Research Letters.
Speedy streams
High altitude jet streams in the northern and southern hemisphere are the powerful winds that help move weather systems around the globe.
Air traffic normally tries to take advantage of these speedy flows of the Atlantic jet stream from west to east to reduce journey times on routes between Europe and North America.
This is one of the world's busiest routes with around 600 flights every day.
Previous studies have shown that climate change is likely to increase turbulence on these transatlantic flights. In this new study researchers MODELLED how atmospheric winds would change given a doubling of atmospheric CO2.
They fed the results into the same route algorithms that airlines routinely use to plan their transatlantic journeys.
They found that the winds on the New York to London route will become 15% faster on average.
Flights from London will become twice as likely to take over seven hours while flights from New York will speed up and will become twice as likely to take under five hours and 20 minutes.
While on average, flights will only gain and lose a few minutes each way, the cumulative impact is "significant" says the study.
"If you look at the round trips, the eastbound flights are getting shorter by less than the westbound flights are getting longer," lead author Dr Paul Williams from the University of Reading told BBC News.
"So there is a robust increase in the round-trip journey time, which means planes spending longer in the air, when you add that up for all transatlantic aircraft you get an extra 2,000 hours of planes in the air every year, with $22 million extra in fuel costs and 70 million kg of CO2."
The researchers say the extra CO2 is the equivalent of the annual emissions of 7,000 British homes.
Blowing hot and cold
While at present there is no firm observational evidence of changes in the jet stream, scientists point to the fact that the record time for a non-Concorde flight from New York to London is currently 5 hours and 16 minutes, set in January last year.
"We know what drives the jet stream, it's the temperature difference between the warm tropical regions and the cold polar regions at flight levels," said Dr Williams.
"We understand what that temperature difference is going to do in response to global warming, it's increasing, we are very confident that the jet stream is increasing as a consequence."
The researchers believe that as well as worsening the environmental impacts of aviation, airlines are likely to increase ticket prices to cover their costs.
And while the study only applied to the London-New York route, the impacts on flights of changes in the jet streams are likely to be felt all over the world as these critical winds are found in both the northern and southern hemispheres.
Other scientists in this field welcomed the study.
"This study builds on the concept that my team published last year showing that there is a two-way relationship between climate change and air travel," said Dr Kristopher Karnauskas, from the University of Colorado, Boulder.
"I think these results are an important step forward in filling in the overall puzzle that is this intricate relationship that we humans have with the climate system."
Dr Gregor Leckebusch from the University of Birmingham said the study was sound and the findings were easy to comprehend.
"My meteorological basic instinct would exactly have predicted such a result (shorter eastbound times while longer westbound times), but it is difficult to quantify the net effect without a detailed study using a conceptual model and detailed computational efforts," he said.
Note the evil word MODELLED. says it al really. GIGO again
If the climate models predict that the jet streams should increase in speed, and we do not observe an increase, then the models are wrong.
It isn't complicated. The BBC and journals that propogate this nonsense shoud be openly mocked.
don4l said:
How on Earth could any self respecting journal publish such dross is beyond me.
If the climate models predict that the jet streams should increase in speed, and we do not observe an increase, then the models are wrong.
It isn't complicated. The BBC and journals that propogate this nonsense shoud be openly mocked.
Journalists?If the climate models predict that the jet streams should increase in speed, and we do not observe an increase, then the models are wrong.
It isn't complicated. The BBC and journals that propogate this nonsense shoud be openly mocked.
Far too expensive.
Press release cut and pasters are much cheaper.
Nice to see that they found 2 people who are apparently not involved in the published paper who can agree with it because it helps to puff their own opinions which, apparently, they have made public previously. Nothing better than consensus when you have a trumpet you want to blow. It's the modern way.
turbobloke said:
don4l said:
If the climate models predict that the jet streams should increase in speed, and we do not observe an increase, then the models are wrong.
And if those models previously predicted a decrease in speed which has mysteriously evolved into an increase...As recently as last March the Guardian was wailing about the jet streams weakening.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-con...
A little more Googling reveals that Matt McGrath has previously warned about weakening jet streams. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2293...
So, Matt McGrath knows that one of his stories must be wrong, and yet he shamelessly propogates both.
Otispunkmeyer said:
http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2016/02/a-full-ca...
"Terrifying" headline
Then you read on and find "some one made a model...."
And its the Antarctic which i though, had record amount of Ice of late?
The Antarctic had records amount of sea ice of late, a slight difference. However that had now gone back to lower than normal. "Terrifying" headline
Then you read on and find "some one made a model...."
And its the Antarctic which i though, had record amount of Ice of late?
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/sea...
It will be interesting to sea how it increases over the winter compared to last few years.
don4l said:
turbobloke said:
don4l said:
If the climate models predict that the jet streams should increase in speed, and we do not observe an increase, then the models are wrong.
And if those models previously predicted a decrease in speed which has mysteriously evolved into an increase...As recently as last March the Guardian was wailing about the jet streams weakening.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-con...
A little more Googling reveals that Matt McGrath has previously warned about weakening jet streams. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2293...
So, Matt McGrath knows that one of his stories must be wrong, and yet he shamelessly propogates both.
Rather than just complaining, as is the British past time....
Gandahar said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2016/02/a-full-ca...
"Terrifying" headline
Then you read on and find "some one made a model...."
And its the Antarctic which i though, had record amount of Ice of late?
The Antarctic had records amount of sea ice of late, a slight difference. However that had now gone back to lower than normal. "Terrifying" headline
Then you read on and find "some one made a model...."
And its the Antarctic which i though, had record amount of Ice of late?
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/sea...
It will be interesting to sea how it increases over the winter compared to last few years.
Gandahar said:
don4l said:
turbobloke said:
don4l said:
If the climate models predict that the jet streams should increase in speed, and we do not observe an increase, then the models are wrong.
And if those models previously predicted a decrease in speed which has mysteriously evolved into an increase...As recently as last March the Guardian was wailing about the jet streams weakening.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-con...
A little more Googling reveals that Matt McGrath has previously warned about weakening jet streams. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2293...
So, Matt McGrath knows that one of his stories must be wrong, and yet he shamelessly propogates both.
Gandahar said:
Rather than just complaining, as is the British past time....
Not complaining, just pointing out that for many years, modelled global warming was consistent with measures showing a weakening of the northern jet stream currents, now they've recently strengthened and got faster, suddenly global warming models predicted this. If you really can't take the 
jshell said:
Bearing in mind that the part of the Antarctic that loses most ice has been shown to have an active volcano under it... No, really!
Yes yes yes but but but...Increased volcanic activity is due to global warming
see this link 'global warming causes volcamism':http://www.livescience.com/25936-climate-change-ca...
Please remember...global warming causes everything, including opposite results e.g. heating or cooling, less snow or more snow, less drought or more drought, more hurricanes or less hurricane, weaker jet stream or stronger jet stream, etc.
It can even impact on human thought by causing numpties to give names to wintry wind and rain, allegedly.
turbobloke said:
Gandahar said:
don4l said:
turbobloke said:
don4l said:
If the climate models predict that the jet streams should increase in speed, and we do not observe an increase, then the models are wrong.
And if those models previously predicted a decrease in speed which has mysteriously evolved into an increase...As recently as last March the Guardian was wailing about the jet streams weakening.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-con...
A little more Googling reveals that Matt McGrath has previously warned about weakening jet streams. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2293...
So, Matt McGrath knows that one of his stories must be wrong, and yet he shamelessly propogates both.
Get off your arses and instead of posting here a perpetual series of posts that serves no purpose apart from perpetuating your hobby, go and do something to change the scientific dogma
If Galileo could suffer imprisonment for his views that were right I am sure you could get off your backsides to prove you are right in this demanding world.
You can't though, because it is far too easy to write a forum post from in front of your pc.
It's pitiful. And I enjoy watching it ...
Keep going,
Well done.
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