Prince Andrew US civil sexual assault case

[Stay in Bed Instead]

Gameface said:

Your clearly being obtuse for the sake of it.

Funny how that is often claimed because someone has a different opinion to themselves.

Doesn't make it true though.

[Gameface]

In this case it does.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

Gameface said:

In this case it does.

Excellent debating style.

[Gameface]

Priceless hypocrisy.

[jakesmith]

Welshbeef said:

jakesmith said:

Welshbeef said:

I’d struggle to remember what I was doing on a set date on a weekend x months ago let alone 18 years.

Just check that date’s postings on ph
Odds on you were deliberately annoying someone!

You joined nearly 10 years ago me just over twelve. But you can post here from any location so relying on this as evidence that you were anything but “how’s yer father” or knee trembler with someone is weak.

Just a joke, I’m implying that you spend a lot of time winding people up on ph, never mind!

[Vizsla]

jakesmith said:

Welshbeef said:

jakesmith said:

Welshbeef said:

I’d struggle to remember what I was doing on a set date on a weekend x months ago let alone 18 years.

Just check that date’s postings on ph
Odds on you were deliberately annoying someone!

You joined nearly 10 years ago me just over twelve. But you can post here from any location so relying on this as evidence that you were anything but “how’s yer father” or knee trembler with someone is weak.

Just a joke, I’m implying that you spend a lot of time winding people up on ph, never mind!

Wasted Jake, I thought it was funny

[Murph7355]

Gameface said:

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Which is what exactly?

Your clearly being obtuse for the sake of it.

You've not been here long, have you?

[Escy]

BadBull said:

What was the upside for Andrew?

Sex with underage girls supplied by Epstein

[Petrus1983]

When I was 16/17 I knew a few girls who looked a lot older than that and would have jumped at the chance to go on private jets to fancy destinations with rich older guys. One girl in particular did end up at the Monaco GP and staying on a private yacht - never found out what happened, but she liked sex and also the attention. She’s happily married now, two kids, crazy lifestyle days behind her - I’d be amazed if she ever felt she was a sex trafficking victim as Roberts makes out. It’s also interesting that Gloria Allred’s (Roberts lawyer) victims always come out saying the same things.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

Murph7355 said:

You've not been here long, have you?

It's sadly noticeable that over recent years the quality of discussion has deteriorated significantly.

These days, unless you comply with the consensus you are shouted down and accused of trolling.

All started about 2016.

Edited by Stay in Bed Instead on Wednesday 20th November 08:43

[Escapegoat]

Breadvan72 said:

Apologia for middle aged men who perv on teenaged women seem a tad frequent here. Is it a company director thing?

You keep doing this and it really muddies the water. There is a law, with a strict technical definition. You're a lawyer. Why not try to leave smears out of it?

No apologies are needed, and none are required.

Now, back to PA...

[Zirconia]

I cannot see why anyone would remain in a friendship with such person after the conviction. I understand there were concerns before his remarkable get out of jail nearly free deal but the conviction certainly a point you walk away.

Legality does not come into it for my money. Enabling abusers does, and there are concerns that Epstein was back to his old tricks and certainly not complying with the legal restraints placed on him after the conviction.

[jshell]

Petrus1983 said:

When I was 16/17 I knew a few girls who looked a lot older than that and would have jumped at the chance to go on private jets to fancy destinations with rich older guys. One girl in particular did end up at the Monaco GP and staying on a private yacht - never found out what happened, but she liked sex and also the attention. She’s happily married now, two kids, crazy lifestyle days behind her - I’d be amazed if she ever felt she was a sex trafficking victim as Roberts makes out. It’s also interesting that Gloria Allred’s (Roberts lawyer) victims always come out saying the same things.

Unfortunately, many girls from the age of 13/14 actively seek sex despite their utter lack of emotional maturity. For some it may be peer pressure, for others hormones, or for some it may be attention seeking due to some void in life. I grew up in two very distinct geographical areas and was aware of just how much sexual activity was going on in both areas. Mostly between like-aged kids, but more seedily 20-odd year old guys and teenage girls. Having had many conversations in the last few years with some of those girls that liked the older guys, many of them just put it down to 'experience' and being 'young and stupid'. None that I know would look to pursue any legal complaints.

A young lad from my school found out the hard way that 13 year old girls keep diaries which their mothers read. He was interviewed but not charged due to being 15 years old. The same girl had propositioned me, but I'd declined due to a combination of her age and a father that taught me right from wrong. I would have been fked!

[2Btoo]

greygoose said:

So how far up the scale do people have to go before you stop associating with them, Fred West ok with his incest, rapes and multiple murders?

Equally, how far down the scale does someone have to go before you continue to associate with them? A good mate of yours is done for speeding - do you never speak to him again? Of course not. He fiddles his income tax or has an affair - do you disown him entirely? I doubt it. If we keep going with things that are perceived as more 'serious' then what is the point at which you decide that that person is no longer a friend? Or do you say that you will stick by your friends no matter what they have done?

(As I said, I'm not suggesting you should condone any of these things, just asking whether you continue to associate with someone who has done them.)

vaud said:

Playing devils advocate, what loyalty does any criminal deserve?

Exactly - thanks Vaud.

[Gameface]

Everyone's threshold is different, but I'd expect 99% of people to draw a line at fking kids.

[Roo]

Gameface said:

Everyone's threshold is different, but I'd expect 99% of people to draw a line at fking kids.

Someone I used to work with was convicted of having child pornography images on his computer at home.

His wife left him and I don't know of a single work colleague who kept in touch with him.
There's a line. And that's beyond it.

[Etypephil]

Breadvan72 said:

When I get banned I want to come back as someone who is obsessively racist but only about people from Scarborough.

[Petrus1983]

jshell said:

A young lad from my school found out the hard way that 13 year old girls keep diaries which their mothers read. He was interviewed but not charged due to being 15 years old. The same girl had propositioned me, but I'd declined due to a combination of her age and a father that taught me right from wrong. I would have been fked!

13/14 is far too young imo and I see Epstein’s actual convictions included to solicitation of such girls which is wrong on so many levels. I was in the fortunate position at these ages via a very morale family and being fugly as sin.

I’m still confused by Prince Andrew on this one - he seems a bit dim tbh and I also believe he’d have been in such a world surrounded by your good old African war lords in Cannes and just the standard high level crooks in Russia that I’m quite sure someone like Epstein said to him “I took the wrap to protect people, I’m innocent, but I’m a good guy like that” and he was believed. Doing the interview was dumb as fk though - basically a one hour police interrogation over serious allegations without a lawyer present.

[vaud]

2Btoo said:

greygoose said:

So how far up the scale do people have to go before you stop associating with them, Fred West ok with his incest, rapes and multiple murders?

Equally, how far down the scale does someone have to go before you continue to associate with them? A good mate of yours is done for speeding - do you never speak to him again? Of course not. He fiddles his income tax or has an affair - do you disown him entirely? I doubt it. If we keep going with things that are perceived as more 'serious' then what is the point at which you decide that that person is no longer a friend? Or do you say that you will stick by your friends no matter what they have done?

(As I said, I'm not suggesting you should condone any of these things, just asking whether you continue to associate with someone who has done them.)

vaud said:

Playing devils advocate, what loyalty does any criminal deserve?

Exactly - thanks Vaud.

I was being slightly provocative.

Actually it varies by moral scale.

Take the old story of 10PS. A cautionary tale of a drive that went very wrong and he went to prison. I don't know him, but I would not have discarded him as a friend.

Or Jonathan Aitken who went to prison for perjury. Worthy of losing a long term friend? No-one is "injured" by perjury.

Now I too draw the line at child abusers, but my point was actually "it varies by individual and the crime" - a friendship could survive criminality.

Finally, not every conviction is safe, miscarriages of justice do still happen - and I would hope in a faulty conviction that friends might stand by me...

[jshell]

Petrus1983 said:

jshell said:

A young lad from my school found out the hard way that 13 year old girls keep diaries which their mothers read. He was interviewed but not charged due to being 15 years old. The same girl had propositioned me, but I'd declined due to a combination of her age and a father that taught me right from wrong. I would have been fked!

13/14 is far too young imo and I see Epstein’s actual convictions included to solicitation of such girls which is wrong on so many levels. I was in the fortunate position at these ages via a very morale family and being fugly as sin.

I’m still confused by Prince Andrew on this one - he seems a bit dim tbh and I also believe he’d have been in such a world surrounded by your good old African war lords in Cannes and just the standard high level crooks in Russia that I’m quite sure someone like Epstein said to him “I took the wrap to protect people, I’m innocent, but I’m a good guy like that” and he was believed. Doing the interview was dumb as fk though - basically a one hour police interrogation over serious allegations without a lawyer present.

At the time they think they are mature, but it's only later that they realise they were young and stupid. Unfortunately there are only too many guys willing to take advantage. At 14 onwards we would all be getting nekkit and messing about like most teenagers did, but my Dad had put the fear of God and prison into me about going over the line...