Respecting religion???
Discussion
Moonhawk said:
I wouldn't if I were you - it would be classed as a form of idolatry, punishable by death by Chinese burn, followed by an eternity being forced to listed to Des O'Connor CDs.
Aaaaaaaah! So you believe in the afterlife. And I assume hell, unless Des O'Connor is your idea of heaven!Edited by Moonhawk on Tuesday 27th January 11:05
^^^^
Well, its not bad really. Connections are perhaps not as obvious as people think. You can see the effects of electricity, the actual flow of energy is perhaps hidden? (the electrons etc that cause you to see light and all that?).
Thing is you can demonstrate it and even build smile experiments in your own home to prove it.
Well, its not bad really. Connections are perhaps not as obvious as people think. You can see the effects of electricity, the actual flow of energy is perhaps hidden? (the electrons etc that cause you to see light and all that?).
Thing is you can demonstrate it and even build smile experiments in your own home to prove it.
Claudia Skies said:
I always think electricity is an interesting thing. Have I ever seen any? No
Do I believe in it? Yes!
Seeing is believing right? Of course we use indirect evidence for things much of the time and there's nowt wrong with it as long as the same rigor is applied to things we can easily see.Do I believe in it? Yes!
To use electricity as an example - the observations from sparks to shocks to heat to light back up the theories.
IR radiation is similar to electricity - we can't see it as our eyes don't see into that wavelength but we can feel it on our skin as heat. We see light but we don't 'see' photons individually. Our universe is entirely alien once we cross the size-gap either to the very very small or to the stellar - visualising either are nigh on impossible to our limited-by-evolution minds.
No wonder we've a long history of inventing apparently simple fairy-stores as explanations.
jmorgan said:
Well, its not bad really. Connections are perhaps not as obvious as people think. You can see the effects of electricity, the actual flow of energy is perhaps hidden? (the electrons etc that cause you to see light and all that?).
Thank you. Grumfutock is clearly on his usual mission to be deliberately obtuse.Claudia Skies said:
jmorgan said:
Well, its not bad really. Connections are perhaps not as obvious as people think. You can see the effects of electricity, the actual flow of energy is perhaps hidden? (the electrons etc that cause you to see light and all that?).
Thank you. Grumfutock is clearly on his usual mission to be deliberately obtuse.Claudia Skies said:
I always think electricity is an interesting thing. Have I ever seen any? No
Do I believe in it? Yes!
Why would you believe in it?Do I believe in it? Yes!
You can see it, observe it, you don't need any belief.
The postman comes most mornings, I don't go around professing belief in him, but he still turns up.
PhillipM said:
Why would you believe in it?
You can see it, observe it, you don't need any belief.
The postman comes most mornings, I don't go around professing belief in him, but he still turns up.
...but people do need to believe in the supernatural aspects of their religion because they don't turn up, apart from a couple of thousand years ago, when the son of god was born, in the Middle East, for some reason and prophets also happened to be spoken to in the same region.You can see it, observe it, you don't need any belief.
The postman comes most mornings, I don't go around professing belief in him, but he still turns up.
Those poor native Americans never had the chance to get to hear about the Abrahamic religions until Europeans arrived to save them, because the supernatural international communications were not good enough at the time of the various miracles and visitations.
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 27th January 20:05
Claudia Skies said:
jmorgan said:
Well, its not bad really. Connections are perhaps not as obvious as people think. You can see the effects of electricity, the actual flow of energy is perhaps hidden? (the electrons etc that cause you to see light and all that?).
Thank you. Grumfutock is clearly on his usual mission to be deliberately obtuse.Laughable, sad but laughable.
MC Bodge said:
...but people do need to believe in the supernatural aspects of their religion because they don't turn up, apart from a couple of thousand years ago, in the Middle East, for some reason.
Those poor native Americans never had the chance to get to hear about the Abrahamic religions until Europeans arrived to save them, because the supernatural international communications were not good enough at the time.
I went to Sunday School when I was about 10 or so. It was a requirement for the Boy Scouts. Those poor native Americans never had the chance to get to hear about the Abrahamic religions until Europeans arrived to save them, because the supernatural international communications were not good enough at the time.
I asked that question of the teacher when the conversation got around to no one but me bit. She was a hard-faced woman whose looks belied a heart of stone. She said, in essence, hard luck on them. One of the older kids asked what had happened to those who had been born before Jesus, and it was more or less the same answer. Another asked what if they'd been good and had helped people. And she ended question time.
I went to the reference library - you can see what sort of sad kid I was - and looked it up with the help of a librarian whom I got on well with. She had thought she was married to my uncle Jim but it turned out he'd got a couple of prior engagements in other ports. When he was lost at sea, my father found a series of letters he had to send to four or five women living near or in coastal towns. Hers reached her when she was pregnant. Her father, a verger at a church (I assume) near Chichester kicked her out on finding she was not married.
So you can see my (not quite) aunt thought this would be a jolly jape and found all sorts of conflicting answers to the question. Most seemed to agree that it was harsh but fair that they be condemned never to go to the heavenly reward. Some suggested a waiting area (but waiting for what?) which I now assume is limbo. I suppose they did a lot of dancing there.
MC Bodge said:
Those poor native Americans never had the chance to get to hear about the Abrahamic religions until Europeans arrived to save them, because the supernatural international communications were not good enough at the time of the various miracles and visitations.
That is an excellent point and take on it. There are a number of ways of looking religion that really expose its 'man-made' nature - to the extent that the continuing belief by many that it is not evidently 'made-up' is truely remarkable in this day and age.
MC Bodge said:
Those poor native Americans never had the chance to get to hear about the Abrahamic religions until Europeans arrived to save them, because the supernatural international communications were not good enough at the time of the various miracles and visitations.
You'd think an allmighty, omniprescent God wouldn't have overlooked such things as forgetting the other 95% of his target audience. I bet he forgets where he put his car keys too.PhillipM said:
Why would you believe in it?
You can see it, observe it, you don't need any belief.
The postman comes most mornings, I don't go around professing belief in him, but he still turns up.
Belief and belief.You can see it, observe it, you don't need any belief.
The postman comes most mornings, I don't go around professing belief in him, but he still turns up.
One word, two categories of use. Probably a sliding scale of meaning really... very nuanced.
- I have belief based on concrete things - I have a belief that the sun will rise tomorrow as it did today.
- I have belief in certain aspects of far less concrete things - a filament glows because of electricity flowing through it. I believe that there are electrons moving even though I can't see them.
- I believe my wife loves me based on what she tells me, how she acts and my own deep-seated desire to be loved.
To believe in god/the supernatural requires faith and no knowledge.
///ajd said:
That is an excellent point and take on it.
There are a number of ways of looking religion that really expose its 'man-made' nature - to the extent that the continuing belief by many that it is not evidently 'made-up' is truely remarkable in this day and age.
Exactly.There are a number of ways of looking religion that really expose its 'man-made' nature - to the extent that the continuing belief by many that it is not evidently 'made-up' is truely remarkable in this day and age.
It stands up to no scrutiny whatsoever.
It is interesting that the religions/cultures of the dominant, conquering (or wealthy) hordes appears to survive best.... Or is it?
MC Bodge said:
IainT said:
To believe in god/the supernatural requires faith and no knowledge.
...but God moves in mysterious ways and prayers are "answered" sometimes.......as they would be expected to be given probability and people's efforts to fulfil their wishes/their horoscope.
It's rare for a person with faith to even acknowledge that confirmation bias might be involved in their thought processes - it's very tempting to take someone agreeing with you as proof you're right or for a random event to strengthen you supposition. It's interesting how blind we are to the times that the expected result didn't happen and discount it as fluke or not god's will...
We now have Ofsted closing down schools for kids not showing enough respect for religion and alternative ways of life...
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/28/nicky-m...
9 year old girls been quizzed about sexual preference and a similar aged boy when asked what a muslim is said "terrorist" have resulted in schools losing funding or been put on special measures.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/28/nicky-m...
9 year old girls been quizzed about sexual preference and a similar aged boy when asked what a muslim is said "terrorist" have resulted in schools losing funding or been put on special measures.
MC Bodge said:
...but God moves in mysterious ways and prayers are "answered" sometimes....
On the question of prayer - isn't it kinda a giveaway that people only pray for things that are possible.Pray for somebody to recover from a recoverable/curable disease.
Pray for somebody to recover from a serious accident.
Pray for a lost person to be found.
Pray to find a new job after being made redundant.
Pray to win the lottery.
Pray to find "the perfect tux" for a university ball (I know somebody who prayed for just that thing - and had that prayer answered - or so he claimed)
Has anyone every prayed for something that, as far as we know is totally impossible, and had that prayer demonstrably "answered" (e.g. an amputee spontaneously regrowing a lost limb).
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