Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
yellowjack said:
This!
Quite often I get a quizzical look from a driver who's let me go first (rare enough but it does happen
). They seem to be looking for some form of "thank you". But I've got my hands on the handlebars. Both hands, because that's where motorists who profess to care about cyclist safety suggest we cyclists should have our hands. And also because I need my hands covering BOTH brakes lest some woman steps in front of me and I have to avoid hitting them to avoid being "had up" on a manslaughter charge .
On a more serious note, if I'm turning in any direction, or there's even a vague possibility that I might have to use my brakes, the last place I want my hand is raised in a "thank you" no matter how nice you've been to me. For what it's worth I regard the best way of repaying a kindness on the road is to get the f
k on with it and get out of your way ASAP, instead of doddering around waving when I ought to be accelerating up through the gears.
Oh, and if (like many motorists local to me) you're expecting a "thank you" when all you have done is given way correctly, as instructed by regulatory signs and road markings, then you can sit there with that dumb look on your fizzer as long as you want, because no matter what I'm driving or riding, you ain't getting thanked for doing what the road markings already tell you to do. Would you expect a "thank you" from traffic at a junction just because you obeyed a red traffic light? It really is THAT stupid an expectation.
Try a nod of the head as ONE example, there are lots of ways to acknowledge without waving about like Mr Tickle........Quite often I get a quizzical look from a driver who's let me go first (rare enough but it does happen
). They seem to be looking for some form of "thank you". But I've got my hands on the handlebars. Both hands, because that's where motorists who profess to care about cyclist safety suggest we cyclists should have our hands. And also because I need my hands covering BOTH brakes lest some woman steps in front of me and I have to avoid hitting them to avoid being "had up" on a manslaughter charge .On a more serious note, if I'm turning in any direction, or there's even a vague possibility that I might have to use my brakes, the last place I want my hand is raised in a "thank you" no matter how nice you've been to me. For what it's worth I regard the best way of repaying a kindness on the road is to get the f
k on with it and get out of your way ASAP, instead of doddering around waving when I ought to be accelerating up through the gears.Oh, and if (like many motorists local to me) you're expecting a "thank you" when all you have done is given way correctly, as instructed by regulatory signs and road markings, then you can sit there with that dumb look on your fizzer as long as you want, because no matter what I'm driving or riding, you ain't getting thanked for doing what the road markings already tell you to do. Would you expect a "thank you" from traffic at a junction just because you obeyed a red traffic light? It really is THAT stupid an expectation.
The last paragraph betrays you.......for example, at a give way due to parked cars, I always say thank you to those who wait correctly, Cyclist = rude f
kers it seemsStickyfinger said:
Try a nod of the head, there are lots of ways to acknowledge without waving about like Mr Tickle........
The last paragraph betrays you.......for example, at a give way due to parked cars, I always say thank you to those who wait correctly, Cyclist = rude fkers it seems
Other road users would be more polite if you took those 'ROAD CAPTAIN' stickers off your car.The last paragraph betrays you.......for example, at a give way due to parked cars, I always say thank you to those who wait correctly, Cyclist = rude f
kers it seemsStickyfinger said:
Mave said:
If the cyclist is doing 10 mph and the car is doing 25mph, the cyclist is more likely to end up under the car wheels than if the speeds are reversed. The likelihood of there being a situation that leads to an incident in the first place is a separate debate.
What are the other outstanding questions?
How does that work then ?...the speed differential is exactly the same and the dangers are the same.....What are the other outstanding questions?
Edited by Mave on Thursday 19th October 17:40
see above re M/Bike space/outside filtering
Force, there are two components in a force, velocity and mass. It's the force that does the damage you dufus.FiF said:
No no no, I got thanked by a cyclist yesterday, no genuinely I did. Though thinking back it might have been sorry, seeing as he came out of a narrow entrance, no look, no lights, dark clothing, good job quick reactions on my part.
I'm the cyclist you occasionally meet who nods if you pass courteously 
I have to say in Lincolnshire most of the HGV drivers I encounter are very good when passing cyclists these days, they even seem to hold back when approaching a roundabout behind you to help keep you safe.
Cycle as you would drive and you won't go far wrong...
WinstonWolf said:
FiF said:
No no no, I got thanked by a cyclist yesterday, no genuinely I did. Though thinking back it might have been sorry, seeing as he came out of a narrow entrance, no look, no lights, dark clothing, good job quick reactions on my part.
I'm the cyclist you occasionally meet who nods if you pass courteously I have to say in Lincolnshire most of the HGV drivers I encounter are very good when passing cyclists these days, they even seem to hold back when approaching a roundabout behind you to help keep you safe.
Cycle as you would drive and you won't go far wrong...
I should have used "a lot"
WinstonWolf said:
FiF said:
No no no, I got thanked by a cyclist yesterday, no genuinely I did. Though thinking back it might have been sorry, seeing as he came out of a narrow entrance, no look, no lights, dark clothing, good job quick reactions on my part.
I'm the cyclist you occasionally meet who nods if you pass courteously I have to say in Lincolnshire most of the HGV drivers I encounter are very good when passing cyclists these days, they even seem to hold back when approaching a roundabout behind you to help keep you safe.
Cycle as you would drive and you won't go far wrong...
There's a few who nip past in places I wouldn't and closer than I would, long time since seen what I would call a close pass. In the city however...
FiF said:
I have to say out here in Worcestershire boondocks most people do seem to treat cyclists with decent respect and space, apply restraint, hang back and pass courteously. Occasionally you get a nod or a wave, mostly from dedicated cyclists not the folks who happen to be on a bike.
There's a few who nip past in places I wouldn't and closer than I would, long time since seen what I would call a close pass. In the city however...
My previous comments on this thread about Londoners are, I find, increasingly applicable to all city-dwellers in this country.There's a few who nip past in places I wouldn't and closer than I would, long time since seen what I would call a close pass. In the city however...
Stickyfinger said:
Mave said:
Why don't you respond to all the answers to your other points first?
Which one as there are lots of them.... it is hard to filter all the off topic comments thrown about to avoid the single subject I raised.............Stickyfinger said:
yellowjack said:
This!
Quite often I get a quizzical look from a driver who's let me go first (rare enough but it does happen ). They seem to be looking for some form of "thank you". But I've got my hands on the handlebars. Both hands, because that's where motorists who profess to care about cyclist safety suggest we cyclists should have our hands. And also because I need my hands covering BOTH brakes lest some woman steps in front of me and I have to avoid hitting them to avoid being "had up" on a manslaughter charge .
On a more serious note, if I'm turning in any direction, or there's even a vague possibility that I might have to use my brakes, the last place I want my hand is raised in a "thank you" no matter how nice you've been to me. For what it's worth I regard the best way of repaying a kindness on the road is to get the fk on with it and get out of your way ASAP, instead of doddering around waving when I ought to be accelerating up through the gears.
Oh, and if (like many motorists local to me) you're expecting a "thank you" when all you have done is given way correctly, as instructed by regulatory signs and road markings, then you can sit there with that dumb look on your fizzer as long as you want, because no matter what I'm driving or riding, you ain't getting thanked for doing what the road markings already tell you to do. Would you expect a "thank you" from traffic at a junction just because you obeyed a red traffic light? It really is THAT stupid an expectation.
Try a nod of the head as ONE example, there are lots of ways to acknowledge without waving about like Mr Tickle........Quite often I get a quizzical look from a driver who's let me go first (rare enough but it does happen
). They seem to be looking for some form of "thank you". But I've got my hands on the handlebars. Both hands, because that's where motorists who profess to care about cyclist safety suggest we cyclists should have our hands. And also because I need my hands covering BOTH brakes lest some woman steps in front of me and I have to avoid hitting them to avoid being "had up" on a manslaughter charge .On a more serious note, if I'm turning in any direction, or there's even a vague possibility that I might have to use my brakes, the last place I want my hand is raised in a "thank you" no matter how nice you've been to me. For what it's worth I regard the best way of repaying a kindness on the road is to get the f
k on with it and get out of your way ASAP, instead of doddering around waving when I ought to be accelerating up through the gears.Oh, and if (like many motorists local to me) you're expecting a "thank you" when all you have done is given way correctly, as instructed by regulatory signs and road markings, then you can sit there with that dumb look on your fizzer as long as you want, because no matter what I'm driving or riding, you ain't getting thanked for doing what the road markings already tell you to do. Would you expect a "thank you" from traffic at a junction just because you obeyed a red traffic light? It really is THAT stupid an expectation.
OpulentBob said:
Think car!!!! 
Mave said:
The on topic answers to why a 10mph cyclist in collision with a 25mph car isn't the same as a 25mph cyclist in collision with a 10mph car.
That was NOT what I asked was it....My question was about the effect of the car upon a crashing cyclist that was being passing or was (inside filtering) passing said car & why the effect of the cars injury effect being somehow different.
FiF said:
I have to say out here in Worcestershire boondocks most people do seem to treat cyclists with decent respect and space, apply restraint, hang back and pass courteously.
Exactly, only a small minority of weirdos at both ends of the spectrum. Similar to the noisy minority on PH cycling threads.
cb1965 said:
Stickyfinger said:
yellowjack said:
This!
Quite often I get a quizzical look from a driver who's let me go first (rare enough but it does happen ). They seem to be looking for some form of "thank you". But I've got my hands on the handlebars. Both hands, because that's where motorists who profess to care about cyclist safety suggest we cyclists should have our hands. And also because I need my hands covering BOTH brakes lest some woman steps in front of me and I have to avoid hitting them to avoid being "had up" on a manslaughter charge .
On a more serious note, if I'm turning in any direction, or there's even a vague possibility that I might have to use my brakes, the last place I want my hand is raised in a "thank you" no matter how nice you've been to me. For what it's worth I regard the best way of repaying a kindness on the road is to get the fk on with it and get out of your way ASAP, instead of doddering around waving when I ought to be accelerating up through the gears.
Oh, and if (like many motorists local to me) you're expecting a "thank you" when all you have done is given way correctly, as instructed by regulatory signs and road markings, then you can sit there with that dumb look on your fizzer as long as you want, because no matter what I'm driving or riding, you ain't getting thanked for doing what the road markings already tell you to do. Would you expect a "thank you" from traffic at a junction just because you obeyed a red traffic light? It really is THAT stupid an expectation.
Try a nod of the head as ONE example, there are lots of ways to acknowledge without waving about like Mr Tickle........Quite often I get a quizzical look from a driver who's let me go first (rare enough but it does happen
). They seem to be looking for some form of "thank you". But I've got my hands on the handlebars. Both hands, because that's where motorists who profess to care about cyclist safety suggest we cyclists should have our hands. And also because I need my hands covering BOTH brakes lest some woman steps in front of me and I have to avoid hitting them to avoid being "had up" on a manslaughter charge .On a more serious note, if I'm turning in any direction, or there's even a vague possibility that I might have to use my brakes, the last place I want my hand is raised in a "thank you" no matter how nice you've been to me. For what it's worth I regard the best way of repaying a kindness on the road is to get the f
k on with it and get out of your way ASAP, instead of doddering around waving when I ought to be accelerating up through the gears.Oh, and if (like many motorists local to me) you're expecting a "thank you" when all you have done is given way correctly, as instructed by regulatory signs and road markings, then you can sit there with that dumb look on your fizzer as long as you want, because no matter what I'm driving or riding, you ain't getting thanked for doing what the road markings already tell you to do. Would you expect a "thank you" from traffic at a junction just because you obeyed a red traffic light? It really is THAT stupid an expectation.
Stickyfinger said:
IroningMan said:
Other road users would be more polite if you took those 'ROAD CAPTAIN' stickers off your car.
Try answering the point I raised......."Road Captain".....just lolks on the matter in this and the other thread(s?)...You appear to be asserting that, since some Police forces and some legislative bodies have adopted 1.5m as a minimum safe passing distance for drivers who overtake cyclists then this MUST be reciprocated, and it is in your interests to move your vehicle to block cyclists from undertaking you if this 1.5m isn't available - 'for their own good' as well as to protect you from prosecution by one of those Policemen who stand on every street corner on the lookout for such transgressions who will automatically assume that it is you who is overtaking the cyclist and not the cyclist who is undertaking you.
Others have tried to help you understand that there is more to this matter than simple reciprocity: that human beings are more comfortable getting close to a moving object than they are with that moving object getting close to them; and that a cyclist undertaking your moving car can do so safely much more closely than you can in the reverse situation. This is manifestly true in pretty much everybody's real-world experience and unless you've never stood on a station platform or tried to cross a busy road - or ridden a bike - then in the view of many posters you are actually well aware of it and are simply being obtuse.
It is quite possible that there are circumstances in which you might find yourself driving in traffic at 25mph and overtaking a 10mph cyclist - and then over the brow of the hill find that the traffic has slowed to 10mph while the cyclist has sped up and is now coming down your nearside at 25mph. Whether this is a good idea or not will depend on the specifics - many cycle lanes are less than 'cyclist + 1.5m' wide, but I'm sure you wouldn't consider moving left to prevent the cyclist undertaking you if there was a cycle lane? It's just a bit of paint, so while it may change the 'rules', it doesn't change the physical safety - or otherwise - of the situation, so why the difference?
Personally I wouldn't do it, because in my view it would place my safety too much in the hands of every driver I was passing, and one of them might change course and leave me with nowhere to go, or take it upon themselves to block me because they don't like anyone who appears to be benefitting from making a different choice to them...(see also zip merging etc. ad infinitum).
Just leave as much room as you can and follow a predictable path; it's really not hard; and if you are genuinely struggling to cope with the conflicting demands of cyclists to the left of you and bikers to the right of you - then get the bus.
Stickyfinger said:
Mave said:
The on topic answers to why a 10mph cyclist in collision with a 25mph car isn't the same as a 25mph cyclist in collision with a 10mph car.
That was NOT what I asked was it....My question was about the effect of the car upon a crashing cyclist that was being passing or was (inside filtering) passing said car & why the effect of the cars injury effect being somehow different.
heebeegeetee said:
yest Digby claims he sees none.
You have just confirmed you are clearly here to stir things up. Why else would you constantly ignore what I keep saying?For the last time, I don't see cars crossing reds long after they have been red. I don't see them jump a queue and filter in / dodge around oncoming or crossing traffic. I don't see them treat lights as though they do not even exist.
Bikes do this ALL the time. Yesterday I saw someone on a bike jump a red with a small child on a rear seat. How lovely.
So, for what must be the sixth or seventh time now, I see loads of cars jump reds a second after they have changed but never 30 seconds to a minute.
I'll just copy paste this from now on when you try again to see something I never said.
Feel free to quote the part (as someone did before) where I say I never see it and I will post the comments before it which it relates to. Clue: It relates to and is simply an abridged version of the above.
See how long you can last this time before you post the same rubbish.
Edited by Digby on Friday 20th October 13:01
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