Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
heebeegeetee said:
1. London is a city of 8 million people. I'm sorry, but the opinion of one person is NOT news. It's even old news for London: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/110...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/recreational...
Did you mean to link to something which suggests riders are road hooligans? One which agrees with me that you simply can't start building more lanes?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/recreational...
Anyway, back to your style of posting seeing as figuring things out isn't what you care about...
Did you know, they even tell you on the Visit Copenhagen web page not to ride during rush hour if you feel rusty.
Perhaps that's why so many ride whilst drunk? It makes their journey more easy going?
Edited by Digby on Saturday 21st October 15:10
heebeegeetee said:
WinstonWolf said:
Pretty much identical to how a lot of motorists behave when there's congestion then...
Right on time... https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...Digby said:
heebeegeetee said:
WinstonWolf said:
Pretty much identical to how a lot of motorists behave when there's congestion then...
Right on time... https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...FiF said:
That thread seems to be about criticising poor driving standards and examples of unacceptable behaviour. But but but we are constantly told on this thread that nobody wants to discuss that and only want to concentrate on cyclists.
A bit like the bad driving thread. A thread where drivers moan about and show bad driving. Hundreds of posts that nobody ever mentions. Digby said:
Nothing? Per year, then?
Well you're either being disingenuous again or you have a poor memory because you've asked before (more than once) and I've answered before likewise. I used to drive hgvs in and around London a few times per month but that was a long time ago, starting pre-M25.
Used to have friends in London but that was also a long time ago.
Nowadays we normally visit a few times per year but this year because of the problem with my leg we haven't been at all.
I like London and don't get to visit as often as I'd like. We like to park in Regents Park and then walk and tube it etc.
Haven't driven in central London for many years now (as many say, it's hard to see the point) so my main experience is as a pedestrian, which of course also gets me close up and personal with the cyclists.
How about you? You used to tell us you were also were an hgv driver, operating in London, but you've recently told me you're not an hgv driver, so what do you do in London nowadays?
Of course you don't have to live in London to know there's no such thing as road tax nor that cyclists behave in any meaningful way that's different from anybody else, and as for the idea that cyclists hold anybody up, I'm like 'oh perlease!'
heebeegeetee said:
Stuff..
Thought so.Anyone else regularly posting who doesn't have much a of a clue, either?
And what about me?
I told you, given how many times when you don't like what you read you insult people by calling them liars, fantasists and trolls, I will just let you tell me what I am and what I think. You did that too, remember? Told me what I think. In fact you said you know how everyone thinks and then avoided questions related to this.
I bet you are dying to quote the part where I post I am not a driver in relation to the above.
Anyway, these drunk cyclists in Copenhagen, what can be done about that do you think? How about the bike congestion? Any ideas? I wonder how many are drunk in the UK..
Digby said:
1. And what about me?
I told you, given how many times when you don't like what you read you insult people by calling them liars, fantasists and trolls, I will just let you tell me what I am and what I think. You did that too, remember? Told me what I think. In fact you said you know how everyone thinks and then avoided questions related to this.
I bet you are dying to quote the part where I post I am not a driver in relation to the above.
2. Anyway, these drunk cyclists in Copenhagen, what can be done about that do you think? How about the bike congestion? Any ideas? I wonder how many are drunk in the UK..
1. And that's probably the straightest answer as I'm likely to expect, to a perfectly straightforward question.I told you, given how many times when you don't like what you read you insult people by calling them liars, fantasists and trolls, I will just let you tell me what I am and what I think. You did that too, remember? Told me what I think. In fact you said you know how everyone thinks and then avoided questions related to this.
I bet you are dying to quote the part where I post I am not a driver in relation to the above.
2. Anyway, these drunk cyclists in Copenhagen, what can be done about that do you think? How about the bike congestion? Any ideas? I wonder how many are drunk in the UK..
2. Been meaning to address this
. About 4 years ago or so we went on a Viking River Cruise on the Rhine, from Basel to Amsterdam, very enjoyable. At the end of the cruise we approached Amsterdam at night. I really enjoyed chugging along a dutch canal in the dark, en route to Amsterdam, and enjoyed the incongruity of seemingly cruising through Dutch suburbia on what really was a pretty big boat for the circumstances. From the top deck of the ship we were able to look right down into people's houses, see their tvs on etc, whilst on the other side of the ship two women were cycling side by side at exactly the same speed as us. We couldn't see them, we could only see their cycle lamps and hear them chatting, but they remained just slightly behind us for what seemed half an hour or so.
IIRC to get into Amsterdam we had to enter the North sea and then turn into the harbour. We had to wait for another Viking ship to leave it's dock, for us to take it's place. It was now between midnight and 1am.
By now a small group of us had congregated out on the top deck, looking over the prow. The ship seemed to be docking by the railway station, and we were all genuinely surprised, and delighted, to see just how many people were out and about in the town, all on their bikes. s
t loads of 'em.We concluded that they must all be youngsters, all for a good night out, dating, getting pissed/smashed and all the rest of it, as we all agreed we had enjoyed when we were young - but they're doing it by bike! I think we all thought it was really great to see. I was able to tell the yanks that although I only lived a few hundred miles away as the seagull flies, the sight of all these people, all over the place on their bicycles, was as absolutely as alien a site for me as it was for them.
In conversation, half of us Brits, half yanks, 10-12 of us I guess, we all agreed that back home in the UK or US, most of these kids would likely be in a car at some point during the night, and we agreed that we were all familiar with the loss of life that tragically often ensues. Even when the driver wasn't drunk or drugged, with drivers falling asleep in the early hours, or showing off to their mates, or being distracted by a car full of mates, male or female, we all knew the scenario. Even when using taxis, it meant that cars are driving around full of drunk passengers.
We all agreed that if we had a choice, if our kids are going to go out for a good time, we'd prefer them on bikes rather than in cars, but both in the UK and US that's simply never going to happen, and in any case unlike more civilised countries, it would be totally unsafe for someone to cycle drunk in the UK or US (safer for other road users though, I would have thought). And I mean, even when the dutch kids were pissed, they were still exercising!
You of course will almost certainly take the opposing view.
And don't forget, pissed up pedestrians are also pissed up road users - but they're not in cars.
There's some UK stats here - in 2014 940 people were killed in drink drive related incidents, 3,600 seriously injured, 85,000 people convicted in England and Wales. https://www.drinkdriving.org/drink_driving_statist...
Apparently drug detection methods have changed in the past year or so, so detection rates have rocketed in the UK.
I know I'd sooner take my chances with a drunk cyclist than with a drunk driver.
Edited by heebeegeetee on Saturday 21st October 19:39
heebeegeetee said:
A lovely story..
At least we agree on something it seems. Riding drunk is as fkin stupid and demented as it is in a vehicle.Apparently most do it in Copenhagen because they can get away with it. Probably the same mindset as with red lights etc etc...
heebeegeetee said:
I know I'd sooner take my chances with a drunk cyclist than with a drunk driver.
Depends on the situation, doesn't it?I would rather a drunk driver pull out in front of my vehicle than a drunk rider.
Edited by Digby on Saturday 21st October 22:31
Digby said:
heebeegeetee said:
A lovely story..
At least we agree on something it seems. Riding drunk is as fkin stupid and demented as it is in a vehicle.I don't equate the reckless and/or drunk riding of a bicycle with stuff like this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6114636.stm
http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/story/2017-04-06/th...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshi...
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/metro.co.uk/2017/07/1...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/four-scottish-t...
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/n...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1536597/Fou...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/07/fo...
Personally I'm struggling to understand, as tragic as the linked reports are, a connection with a thread on cyclist deaths in London including a sub thread on drunk in charge with young inexperienced drivers driving like idiots and killing themselves, their passengers and sometimes innocent 3rd parties on rural roads.
Maybe it's just me that needs a parrot but would have been helpful to have some explanation as to the logic behind posting that list of terrible incidents as relevant to the recent discussion.
Maybe it's just me that needs a parrot but would have been helpful to have some explanation as to the logic behind posting that list of terrible incidents as relevant to the recent discussion.
Ah, drunk cycling is sensible. Got it. Remember that part where I said you ignore anything you don't like the sound of?
Then again, in your own words, I have been a lying fantasist for years. "Time for pics" you said.
Perhaps you will start to realise why most of what you say is ignored by so many.
How long has it been since you drove in London in an HGV? Wasn't it twenty odd years?
I'm sure it was you who didn't believe you can be surrounded by riders (will have to check) and surprise surprise, you then went on to say if you couldn't keep track of all of them at all times, it was a vehicle design fault and not the fault of the riders. It didn't matter what they were doing, it was someone else's fault again.
I understand getting up close to cyclists as a pedestrian; especially at crossings, on pavements, in parks, on one way streets, as you cross traffic lights...
Some of the main complaints they receive relate to those areas. Complaints which have prompted the authorities to look at tougher penalties for riders.
Perhaps you should contact them and offer up a story or two from another country? Suggest riding drunk is ok and that cars are bad.
If they don't agree, demand pics and tell them they are all fantasists.
Then again, in your own words, I have been a lying fantasist for years. "Time for pics" you said.
Perhaps you will start to realise why most of what you say is ignored by so many.
How long has it been since you drove in London in an HGV? Wasn't it twenty odd years?
I'm sure it was you who didn't believe you can be surrounded by riders (will have to check) and surprise surprise, you then went on to say if you couldn't keep track of all of them at all times, it was a vehicle design fault and not the fault of the riders. It didn't matter what they were doing, it was someone else's fault again.
I understand getting up close to cyclists as a pedestrian; especially at crossings, on pavements, in parks, on one way streets, as you cross traffic lights...
Some of the main complaints they receive relate to those areas. Complaints which have prompted the authorities to look at tougher penalties for riders.
Perhaps you should contact them and offer up a story or two from another country? Suggest riding drunk is ok and that cars are bad.
If they don't agree, demand pics and tell them they are all fantasists.
FiF said:
Personally I'm struggling to understand, as tragic as the linked reports are, a connection with a thread on cyclist deaths in London including a sub thread on drunk in charge with young inexperienced drivers driving like idiots and killing themselves, their passengers and sometimes innocent 3rd parties on rural roads.
Maybe it's just me that needs a parrot but would have been helpful to have some explanation as to the logic behind posting that list of terrible incidents as relevant to the recent discussion.
It is done to avoid accepting anything he doesn't like.Maybe it's just me that needs a parrot but would have been helpful to have some explanation as to the logic behind posting that list of terrible incidents as relevant to the recent discussion.
Remember the classic post which started talking of accidents in the home, rather than face up to facts?
You never know where you will end up.
Talk of cycling accidents etc and you could find yourself in the middle of a statistical chat about accidents down a mine in South Africa.
Digby said:
FiF said:
Personally I'm struggling to understand, as tragic as the linked reports are, a connection with a thread on cyclist deaths in London including a sub thread on drunk in charge with young inexperienced drivers driving like idiots and killing themselves, their passengers and sometimes innocent 3rd parties on rural roads.
Maybe it's just me that needs a parrot but would have been helpful to have some explanation as to the logic behind posting that list of terrible incidents as relevant to the recent discussion.
It is done to avoid accepting anything he doesn't like.Maybe it's just me that needs a parrot but would have been helpful to have some explanation as to the logic behind posting that list of terrible incidents as relevant to the recent discussion.
Remember the classic post which started talking of accidents in the home, rather than face up to facts?
You never know where you will end up.
Talk of cycling accidents etc and you could find yourself in the middle of a statistical chat about accidents down a mine in South Africa.
FiF said:
Maybe, frankly he needs to explain himself in my opinion.
It's in response to Digbys post listed as yesterday at 10.57. Seems he's criticising me for responding to the points he raised. He keeps mentioning drunk cyclists too, I simply gave my direct experience of them.
Not sure what harm drunk cyclists do, say, as opposed to the problem of drunk drivers.
heebeegeetee said:
FiF said:
Maybe, frankly he needs to explain himself in my opinion.
It's in response to Digbys post listed as yesterday at 10.57. Seems he's criticising me for responding to the points he raised. He keeps mentioning drunk cyclists too, I simply gave my direct experience of them.
Not sure what harm drunk cyclists do, say, as opposed to the problem of drunk drivers.
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