HS2, whats the current status ?

[RacerMike]

stuckmojo said:

Fingers crossed they'll can it

I find this attitude very British. If there was talk in any other country to build better public infrastructure, absolutely no one would disagree with it. I find it bizarre that people are so against building a better public transport system. Sure....it's going to cost a fortune, but longer term it will pay dividends in my opinion.

[mandos_01]

Its the NIMBY's that mean every infrastructure project in this country takes twice as long as it would for any other developed country

[andy_s]

RacerMike said:

stuckmojo said:

Fingers crossed they'll can it

I find this attitude very British. If there was talk in any other country to build better public infrastructure, absolutely no one would disagree with it. I find it bizarre that people are so against building a better public transport system. Sure....it's going to cost a fortune, but longer term it will pay dividends in my opinion.

Changing circumstances, changing priorities?

[stuckmojo]

RacerMike said:

I find this attitude very British. If there was talk in any other country to build better public infrastructure, absolutely no one would disagree with it. I find it bizarre that people are so against building a better public transport system. Sure....it's going to cost a fortune, but longer term it will pay dividends in my opinion.

I'll qualify my perspective then. I think the current project is hugely wasteful versus the benefits it brings. I am in favour of infrastructure spending and would like to see more done. This specific one, I think it's a mess without a strategy.

[alfaman]

RacerMike said:

stuckmojo said:

Fingers crossed they'll can it

I find this attitude very British. If there was talk in any other country to build better public infrastructure, absolutely no one would disagree with it. I find it bizarre that people are so against building a better public transport system. Sure....it's going to cost a fortune, but longer term it will pay dividends in my opinion.

Nope : likely that costs will exceed lifetime benefits IMO.

And would never make a proper financial return on investment.

And isn’t needed.

And will spoil an ‘Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty’

the same investment could yield much better benefits elsewhere

apart from the points above ... it’s a winner

[Murph7355]

Digga said:

Amazing. Crossrail was waived through, but spending away from the capital seems to be a sticking point for MPs.

At least one firm has gone bust gearing up for the colossal plant requirements of HS2:

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2019/02/25/ha...

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2019/02/25/ha...

I'm not sure the location is primary here.

The case for HS2 seems half arsed at best.

[Digga]

Being pragmatic:

1. I'm not sure it can even practically go ahead, given the numbers of ADT's (Articualted Off Road Dump Trucks) that the project needed, given the firms that have now gone to the wall having kitted up in readiness.
2. If they'd agree to spend just a fraction of HS2 on new/upgraded roads, I think it'd represent a better return for the UK.

[AAGR]

If HS2 is cancelled, spare a thought for the many house-owners who were virtually forced to sell their houses to the contractors, at below-value prices, before they are to be bulldozed.

What will they do now ? And what, in the meantime, has happened to those properties which were compulsorily purchased ?

[Robertj21a]

AAGR said:

If HS2 is cancelled, spare a thought for the many house-owners who were virtually forced to sell their houses to the contractors, at below-value prices, before they are to be bulldozed.

What will they do now ? And what, in the meantime, has happened to those properties which were compulsorily purchased ?

They can be sold on to whoever wants to buy them.

[valiant]

Hasn’t something like £10bn worth of contracts already been awarded?

What’s going to happen there? I imagine with the continuous political meddling going on since inception that those who bid for the contracts would ensure that they’re pretty watertight.

[pavarotti1980]

valiant said:

Hasn’t something like £10bn worth of contracts already been awarded?

What’s going to happen there? I imagine with the continuous political meddling going on since inception that those who bid for the contracts would ensure that they’re pretty watertight.

Were Carillion involved?

[RacerMike]

alfaman said:

RacerMike said:

stuckmojo said:

Fingers crossed they'll can it

I find this attitude very British. If there was talk in any other country to build better public infrastructure, absolutely no one would disagree with it. I find it bizarre that people are so against building a better public transport system. Sure....it's going to cost a fortune, but longer term it will pay dividends in my opinion.

Nope : likely that costs will exceed lifetime benefits IMO.

And would never make a proper financial return on investment.

And isn’t needed.

And will spoil an ‘Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty’

the same investment could yield much better benefits elsewhere

apart from the points above ... it’s a winner

But surely absolutely any large infrastructure project will always have the same issues? If we don’t go ahead with stuff like it though, we end up with a further ageing, overcrowded transport system which is practically 3rd world. I know other European countries have more space than us, but it is somewhat embarrassing how far behind our transport network is....and largely because we haven’t invested in it properly for 60years. Cancelling HS2 will mean we’re in an even worse situation as there clearly isn’t another proposal that improves the network.

[valiant]

pavarotti1980 said:

Were Carillion involved?

Part of a consortium with Costain and Balfour Beatty among others for a £6.6bn tranche I believe.

Separate multi million pound contracts for stations, etc also awarded.

Can’t believe they’ll just shrug their shoulders and move into the next project - they’ll want to be paid and as a certain Chris Grayling awarded the contracts you can bet your bottom dollar that there are very onerous clauses should HMG cancel.

[Robertj21a]

RacerMike said:

alfaman said:

RacerMike said:

stuckmojo said:

Fingers crossed they'll can it

I find this attitude very British. If there was talk in any other country to build better public infrastructure, absolutely no one would disagree with it. I find it bizarre that people are so against building a better public transport system. Sure....it's going to cost a fortune, but longer term it will pay dividends in my opinion.

Nope : likely that costs will exceed lifetime benefits IMO.

And would never make a proper financial return on investment.

And isn’t needed.

And will spoil an ‘Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty’

the same investment could yield much better benefits elsewhere

apart from the points above ... it’s a winner

But surely absolutely any large infrastructure project will always have the same issues? If we don’t go ahead with stuff like it though, we end up with a further ageing, overcrowded transport system which is practically 3rd world. I know other European countries have more space than us, but it is somewhat embarrassing how far behind our transport network is....and largely because we haven’t invested in it properly for 60years. Cancelling HS2 will mean we’re in an even worse situation as there clearly isn’t another proposal that improves the network.

I would have thought that there was plenty of opportunity to improve the rail network in the north (that bit of the UK some miles north of the M25).

[gregs656]

RacerMike said:

stuckmojo said:

Fingers crossed they'll can it

I find this attitude very British. If there was talk in any other country to build better public infrastructure, absolutely no one would disagree with it. I find it bizarre that people are so against building a better public transport system. Sure....it's going to cost a fortune, but longer term it will pay dividends in my opinion.

Have you lived anywhere else? I don't think it is uncommon in democracies with relatively short term parliaments, short term governance generally, and high land values for people to be against infrastructure change, particularly if it impacts existing infrastructure which it almost always does in cities and high density areas.

[RacerMike]

gregs656 said:

RacerMike said:

stuckmojo said:

Fingers crossed they'll can it

I find this attitude very British. If there was talk in any other country to build better public infrastructure, absolutely no one would disagree with it. I find it bizarre that people are so against building a better public transport system. Sure....it's going to cost a fortune, but longer term it will pay dividends in my opinion.

Have you lived anywhere else? I don't think it is uncommon in democracies with relatively short term parliaments, short term governance generally, and high land values for people to be against infrastructure change, particularly if it impacts existing infrastructure which it almost always does in cities and high density areas.

Yeah, I’ve lived in Sweden and Canada, and have spent extended periods of time in the US (arguably no better than the Uk) and Spain and Germany.

I don’t disagree that there’s resistance, but on the whole, it seems to get done. As clearly demonstrated by the fact we all still struggle along with a rail network that largely hasn’t changed since the 1800s.

It’s a real shame. I spent a year working in the rain industry and a lot of my colleagues were ex British Rail Engineer’s in Derby. At one time, we were really pretty forward thinking, but it all got closed down when privatisation happened, and investment in the network was stopped.

[CoolHands]

I read this which is interesting. It says it will increase capacity by loads so calling it ‘high speed’ 2 was the wrong thing to do really. I think we need it, and we’d never have any big infrastructure projects if the nimbys of this country had their way.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/08/20/taking...

[Killer2005]

It's going to get binned as that's how things work in this country. Spend a st tonne of money on something, spend more money on countless enquiries and reviews, then cancel the whole thing.

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

RacerMike said:

I find this attitude very British. If there was talk in any other country to build better public infrastructure, absolutely no one would disagree with it. I find it bizarre that people are so against building a better public transport system. Sure....it's going to cost a fortune, but longer term it will pay dividends in my opinion.

We simply don’t have the space down south...it literally is in people’s back yards or very close.

[andy_s]

Killer2005 said:

It's going to get binned as that's how things work in this country. Spend a st tonne of money on something, spend more money on countless enquiries and reviews, then cancel the whole thing.

Sunk cost fallacy.