HS2, whats the current status ?
Discussion
popeyewhite said:
14 said:
Since there isn’t another way of transporting people and goods without spending more than £100 billion on the road network, a new rail line is the only answer.
I don't believe there is a need for a new rail network.There is more to life than commerce and the relentless pursuit of more money just for the sake of ...what? It's a gigantic folly and needs binning.popeyewhite said:
14 said:
Since there isn’t another way of transporting people and goods without spending more than £100 billion on the road network, a new rail line is the only answer.
I don't believe there is a need for a new rail network.There is more to life than commerce and the relentless pursuit of more money just for the sake of ...what? It's a gigantic folly and needs binning.
mcdjl said:
I trust you think the same about roads and airports and don't wish to go any where?
Why would you think that?mcdjl said:
Happy staying in your village and never leaving?
My "village" is Manchester and I'm down in London or Brum a couple of times a year. Book a seat on a train with no trouble a few weeks in advance.mcdjl said:
Otherwise as the population grows we'll have to build new ways of moving everyone who wants to go see the world.
Blimey no wonder HS2 is overbudget.borcy said:
Even if the main lines are full to bursting? What do we do about that? Just ignore it?
On one level - yes. It's too expensive, it's too ruinous to the environment, and it will blight the lives of people who will probaly never travel on the thing. Oh and as others have said, it's not just about overfull trains.I do understand that south of the capital trains can get very full and unpleasant, so a more modest version of HS2, say HS .5, at a fraction of the cost, might do.
popeyewhite said:
mcdjl said:
I trust you think the same about roads and airports and don't wish to go any where?
Why would you think that?mcdjl said:
Happy staying in your village and never leaving?
My "village" is Manchester and I'm down in London or Brum a couple of times a year. Book a seat on a train with no trouble a few weeks in advance.mcdjl said:
Otherwise as the population grows we'll have to build new ways of moving everyone who wants to go see the world.
Blimey no wonder HS2 is overbudget.popeyewhite said:
I don't believe there is a need for a new rail network.There is more to life than commerce and the relentless pursuit of more money just for the sake of ...what? It's a gigantic folly and needs binning.
Just because you can't see it doesn't mean the need isn't there. Last time you went on a plane did you get a seat? In that case why are pretty much all the UK airports expanding their capacity? If we have population growth then unless everyone (including you) is happy to stay in the same place we can either put up with traffic jams or build new capacity to move people and things around.mcdjl said:
Just because you can't see it doesn't mean the need isn't there. Last time you went on a plane did you get a seat? In that case why are pretty much all the UK airports expanding their capacity? If we have population growth then unless everyone (including you) is happy to stay in the same place we can either put up with traffic jams or build new capacity to move people and things around.
Regarding airtravel I'm fully in favour of a new airport, perhaps as previously mooted out in the Thames estuary. As to HS2 I accept there is a need - particularly for the south of the country. However it costs too much.popeyewhite said:
borcy said:
Even if the main lines are full to bursting? What do we do about that? Just ignore it?
On one level - yes. It's too expensive, it's too ruinous to the environment, and it will blight the lives of people who will probaly never travel on the thing. Oh and as others have said, it's not just about overfull trains.I do understand that south of the capital trains can get very full and unpleasant, so a more modest version of HS2, say HS .5, at a fraction of the cost, might do.
mcdjl said:
Because you said:
Manchester... probably a fan of the magic grandpa and thinks the capitalist economy is for other people, whilst blindly ignoring that most of us benefit in numerous and immeasurable ways form the wealth it creates and the taxation it enables. Very few places in the world have the stability of law and order of the UK, or the welfare systems. There is a reason so many people wish to emigrate to the UK - the rest of the world understand these benefits (or what the lack of them means) only too well.popeyewhite said:
I don't believe there is a need for a new rail network.There is more to life than commerce and the relentless pursuit of more money just for the sake of ...what? It's a gigantic folly and needs binning.
Just because you can't see it doesn't mean the need isn't there. Last time you went on a plane did you get a seat? In that case why are pretty much all the UK airports expanding their capacity? If we have population growth then unless everyone (including you) is happy to stay in the same place we can either put up with traffic jams or build new capacity to move people and things around.popeyewhite said:
Regarding airtravel I'm fully in favour of a new airport, perhaps as previously mooted out in the Thames estuary. As to HS2 I accept there is a need - particularly for the south of the country. However it costs too much.
I would say all large infrastructure projects go over budget. I would think a new airport would blight the people living nearby , where do you draw the line ? popeyewhite said:
Regarding airtravel I'm fully in favour of a new airport, perhaps as previously mooted out in the Thames estuary. As to HS2 I accept there is a need - particularly for the south of the country. However it costs too much.
Looking at the UK as a whole Manchester-London is the south of the country. HS2 doesn't go anywhere south of London so i'm slightly confused what you mean there.If an airport was built in the Thames estuary it would need a whole load of new rail/road links. the cost of the project would make HS2 look like small change.
dav123a said:
popeyewhite said:
Regarding airtravel I'm fully in favour of a new airport, perhaps as previously mooted out in the Thames estuary. As to HS2 I accept there is a need - particularly for the south of the country. However it costs too much.
I would say all large infrastructure projects go over budget. I would think a new airport would blight the people living nearby , where do you draw the line ? mcdjl said:
Looking at the UK as a whole Manchester-London is the south of the country. HS2 doesn't go anywhere south of London so i'm slightly confused what you mean there.
Manchester in the South? 
I meant attend to rail needs South of London.
mcdjl said:
If an airport was built in the Thames estuary it would need a whole load of new rail/road links. the cost of the project would make HS2 look like small change.
It would also boost the economy a great deal more than HS2. 
mcdjl said:
popeyewhite said:
Manchester in the South?
I meant attend to rail needs South of London.
Lnads end>manchester 280miles. Manchester> John O groats 350miles. So in the scheme of the UK, so maybe midlands, but yes 'south of the whole UK. Though yes, it is in the north of england.I meant attend to rail needs South of London.
b0rk said:
glazbagun said:
Ministers knew it was over budget before they signed it off-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49450297
Its like they saw the mess Edinburgh made of its trams and thought they'd scale it up.
Funny thing about Edinburgh trams is whilst the scheme will probably never repay the original capital cost. The system very quickly reached operational profitability and is now due to demand about to be extended to incorporate the never built parts of phase 1a. HS2 is I'd suspect a similar project in that government can never expect to see a return on the capital but demand and usage will quickly see the scheme cover operating costs.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49450297
Its like they saw the mess Edinburgh made of its trams and thought they'd scale it up.
popeyewhite said:
dav123a said:
popeyewhite said:
Regarding airtravel I'm fully in favour of a new airport, perhaps as previously mooted out in the Thames estuary. As to HS2 I accept there is a need - particularly for the south of the country. However it costs too much.
I would say all large infrastructure projects go over budget. I would think a new airport would blight the people living nearby , where do you draw the line ? 1: Heathrow is the UK's largest port by value of goods.
2: Something like 99% of that freight is moved in the holds of passenger aircraft.
The airport in the Thames would have about one flight going to it if it was for freight purposes. It is totally in the wrong place for most of the passengers that would use it.
The big difference between the Heathrow expansion and HS2 is that it could be entirely funded by private money because the business case is pretty good (accepting that the private owners effectively have a monopoly).
Building a bigger hub airport means that it draws more transit passengers which then make routes to more places viable which means that people in the UK have better connectivity.
However I think there will be many disruptive changes in the next 20 years. These will be driven by IT, globalization and electrification of transport.
The big changes will be that aircraft will move to electric propulsion and hold baggage will become a niche activity.
Why haul your baggage when Amazon etc can make sure that you have whatever combination of your own property, hired goods or local purchases available to you wherever you go.
If you don't have hold baggage changing planes becomes much easier (see trains) and airport infrastructure becomes much easier. Electric aircraft are much easier to make VTOL.
eVTOL aircraft at scales 4-50 seats are a much better solution than high speed rail and will have faster door to door journey times.v
These eVTOL aircraft then funnel passengers to interchange airports (which could be in the middle of nowhere) where passengers get on longer range electric aircraft (~2-3,000km) which then take you anywhere in the world stopping to change planes or recharge every 2-3 hours.
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