HS2, whats the current status ?
Discussion
hidetheelephants said:
The rail network is bursting so not building new lines isn't an option worth pondering.
Sheesh !I have some transport stats in front of me from the Department of Transport
dated 2016.
Cars account for 62% of all English transport trips and a whopping 78%
of distance travelled. Rail numbers are 2% and 8% respectively.
Buses, walking and cycling account for the rest.
So it looks to me like cars account for about 30 times more trips than train
and about ten times more km.
It appears England would get anything from ten to thirty times more use from their pounds
by spending on the roads, rather than rail.
Based on those numbers, spending anything on the trains looks economically very inefficient to me,
however much train enthusiasts might like it.
dcb said:
hidetheelephants said:
The rail network is bursting so not building new lines isn't an option worth pondering.
Sheesh !I have some transport stats in front of me from the Department of Transport
dated 2016.
Cars account for 62% of all English transport trips and a whopping 78%
of distance travelled. Rail numbers are 2% and 8% respectively.
Buses, walking and cycling account for the rest.
So it looks to me like cars account for about 30 times more trips than train
and about ten times more km.
It appears England would get anything from ten to thirty times more use from their pounds
by spending on the roads, rather than rail.
Based on those numbers, spending anything on the trains looks economically very inefficient to me,
however much train enthusiasts might like it.
Digga said:
don't dispute your figures and the logic is pretty sound too, with one exception; the UK needs to be investing in both road and rail projects. Infrastructure investment is not optional for a 1st world economy, especially one with a population that has ballooned over the last few decades.
The “cars bad” and “no new roads” mantra needs to end World class public transport in cities and to/from for commuter/visitors
But, most of the U.K. is rural and those living/working in rural areas should not be neglected
Rail/bus services are not viable in large parts of the country
Technology now allows for far more innovative ways of working/living we should really be moving away from insisting large numbers of people travel into cities between 9am-5pm
Earthdweller said:
Digga said:
don't dispute your figures and the logic is pretty sound too, with one exception; the UK needs to be investing in both road and rail projects. Infrastructure investment is not optional for a 1st world economy, especially one with a population that has ballooned over the last few decades.
The “cars bad” and “no new roads” mantra needs to end World class public transport in cities and to/from for commuter/visitors
But, most of the U.K. is rural and those living/working in rural areas should not be neglected
Rail/bus services are not viable in large parts of the country
Technology now allows for far more innovative ways of working/living we should really be moving away from insisting large numbers of people travel into cities between 9am-5pm
Huge bits of the economy, in all areas - urban and rural - require the flow of goods vehicles and service vehicles. You plumber cannot and will never be able, to service your boiler remotely, for example.
Digga said:
don't dispute your figures and the logic is pretty sound too, with one exception; the UK needs to be investing in both road and rail projects.
According to this:
http://original.abd.org.uk/green_and_pleasant_land...
the UK has a simply awful motorway network. Getting the UK motorway network
up to European averages would help considerably with economic development.
This isn't going to happen, because the NIMBYs and the BANANAs are powerful groups.
Back on topic, the £100Bn of HS2 would provide a whopping 10,000 miles of motorway across
the country, improving lives and transport costs for everyone.
HS2 looks to me like merely extending the London commuter belt into the Midlands.
Not good for anyone.
robinessex said:
There are, apparently, over 10,000 old railway lines due to the efforts of Doctor Beeching in closing them. I wonder how many could be usefully re-inaugurated?
Very few I’d imagine. The routes may still be there, but the actual lines, stations, points etc are long gone. Near me, the old routes have been transformed into nature trails. robinessex said:
There are, apparently, over 10,000 old railway lines due to the efforts of Doctor Beeching in closing them. I wonder how many could be usefully re-inaugurated?
A YouTube video with views on HS2 and re opening old lines.https://youtu.be/Nf5avCUNP0M
PRTVR said:
robinessex said:
There are, apparently, over 10,000 old railway lines due to the efforts of Doctor Beeching in closing them. I wonder how many could be usefully re-inaugurated?
A YouTube video with views on HS2 and re opening old lines.https://youtu.be/Nf5avCUNP0M
robinessex said:
Cut meat and dairy intake 'by a fifth', report urges
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-512...
People should cut the amount of beef, lamb and dairy produce they eat by a fifth to combat climate change, a report says.
It says public bodies should lead the way by offering plant-based options with all meals.
But it says if people don’t cut consumption willingly, taxes on meat and dairy might be needed.
The report comes from the government’s official advisers, the Committee on Climate Change (CCC)........continues
That's a good idea. Another tax to force us to fruitlessly fix the planet. For the record, I DON'T WANT TO BE A COW AND EAT MORE VEG.
Posted on wrong thread perchance https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-512...
People should cut the amount of beef, lamb and dairy produce they eat by a fifth to combat climate change, a report says.
It says public bodies should lead the way by offering plant-based options with all meals.
But it says if people don’t cut consumption willingly, taxes on meat and dairy might be needed.
The report comes from the government’s official advisers, the Committee on Climate Change (CCC)........continues
That's a good idea. Another tax to force us to fruitlessly fix the planet. For the record, I DON'T WANT TO BE A COW AND EAT MORE VEG.
abzmike said:
BJ said in an interview that HS2 would likely cost north of £100Bn but would probably go ahead. However tenuous the economic case it will be built - Boris will see to it.
I sincerely hope not. The cost, both in terms of construction and damage to the environment, is too high. I'm no green planet activist but the relentless pursuit of money and 'building the economy' has, at some stage, to be matched with an understanding that there's other important things in life - like having some countryside left, not destryoing ancient forests, not destroying wildlife habitats of countless animals, leaving some unpolluted areas for our children. The UK doesn't need faster trains, it doesn't need more trains for goods, people can put up with crowded carriages and the country will not grind to a halt because a tin of beans doesn't get to a Tesco shelf on time or a commuter has to stand for an hour on the way to work. Millions walk, cycle etc, that's why we've got legs. Too far to get to work under your own steam? - Get a job nearer home or move house. I'm sure rural villagers would be quite happy that local housing return to a less inflated price and people born in that area could afford to live there once again.garyhun said:
robinessex said:
Cut meat and dairy intake 'by a fifth', report urges
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-512...
People should cut the amount of beef, lamb and dairy produce they eat by a fifth to combat climate change, a report says.
It says public bodies should lead the way by offering plant-based options with all meals.
But it says if people don’t cut consumption willingly, taxes on meat and dairy might be needed.
The report comes from the government’s official advisers, the Committee on Climate Change (CCC)........continues
That's a good idea. Another tax to force us to fruitlessly fix the planet. For the record, I DON'T WANT TO BE A COW AND EAT MORE VEG.
Posted on wrong thread perchance https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-512...
People should cut the amount of beef, lamb and dairy produce they eat by a fifth to combat climate change, a report says.
It says public bodies should lead the way by offering plant-based options with all meals.
But it says if people don’t cut consumption willingly, taxes on meat and dairy might be needed.
The report comes from the government’s official advisers, the Committee on Climate Change (CCC)........continues
That's a good idea. Another tax to force us to fruitlessly fix the planet. For the record, I DON'T WANT TO BE A COW AND EAT MORE VEG.
Just spotted the thread and popped in to ask a question (apologies if it' already been covered!) - but is there really a market for HS2?
Rail travel in the UK is ruinously expensive compared with a lot of European countries.
My niece, visiting from the US, needed to get up to Edinburgh on Monday. Cheapest train ticket was £124, whilst a flight from Heathrow was £49 - and much quicker. Why would anyone take the train?
Rail travel in the UK is ruinously expensive compared with a lot of European countries.
My niece, visiting from the US, needed to get up to Edinburgh on Monday. Cheapest train ticket was £124, whilst a flight from Heathrow was £49 - and much quicker. Why would anyone take the train?
sunbeam alpine said:
Just spotted the thread and popped in to ask a question (apologies if it' already been covered!) - but is there really a market for HS2?
Rail travel in the UK is ruinously expensive compared with a lot of European countries.
My niece, visiting from the US, needed to get up to Edinburgh on Monday. Cheapest train ticket was £124, whilst a flight from Heathrow was £49 - and much quicker. Why would anyone take the train?
If you take the arbitrary taxes off the motorist, railways are a complete no brainer.Rail travel in the UK is ruinously expensive compared with a lot of European countries.
My niece, visiting from the US, needed to get up to Edinburgh on Monday. Cheapest train ticket was £124, whilst a flight from Heathrow was £49 - and much quicker. Why would anyone take the train?
sunbeam alpine said:
My niece, visiting from the US, needed to get up to Edinburgh on Monday. Cheapest train ticket was £124, whilst a flight from Heathrow was £49 - and much quicker. Why would anyone take the train?
Add in the time & cost of getting to Heathrow, getting from Edinburgh airport to Edinbugh (train stations are central, with plenty of connections). Allow for weight restrictions & things that can't easily be flown.sunbeam alpine said:
Just spotted the thread and popped in to ask a question (apologies if it' already been covered!) - but is there really a market for HS2?
Rail travel in the UK is ruinously expensive compared with a lot of European countries.
My niece, visiting from the US, needed to get up to Edinburgh on Monday. Cheapest train ticket was £124, whilst a flight from Heathrow was £49 - and much quicker. Why would anyone take the train?
passenger numbers - and passenger miles - have been increasing year on year for quite a long time, regardless of the ticket price. That, in a nutshell, is why we need HS2. Rail travel in the UK is ruinously expensive compared with a lot of European countries.
My niece, visiting from the US, needed to get up to Edinburgh on Monday. Cheapest train ticket was £124, whilst a flight from Heathrow was £49 - and much quicker. Why would anyone take the train?
https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1650/passenger...
In many parts of the country the tracks and stations are full up which means there is no spare capacity to run longer trains or more frequent services. By building a new line you can take all the long distance fast trains off the local and regional routes, thus freeing up space to run more frequent services and /or longer trains on existing routes.
Agammemnon said:
sunbeam alpine said:
My niece, visiting from the US, needed to get up to Edinburgh on Monday. Cheapest train ticket was £124, whilst a flight from Heathrow was £49 - and much quicker. Why would anyone take the train?
Add in the time & cost of getting to Heathrow, getting from Edinburgh airport to Edinbugh (train stations are central, with plenty of connections). Allow for weight restrictions & things that can't easily be flown.London-Edinburgh:
HS2 time 220 minutes, Current time 262 minutes.
popeyewhite said:
I sincerely hope not. The cost, both in terms of construction and damage to the environment, is too high. I'm no green planet activist but the relentless pursuit of money and 'building the economy' has, at some stage, to be matched with an understanding that there's other important things in life - like having some countryside left, not destryoing ancient forests, not destroying wildlife habitats of countless animals, leaving some unpolluted areas for our children. The UK doesn't need faster trains, it doesn't need more trains for goods, people can put up with crowded carriages and the country will not grind to a halt because a tin of beans doesn't get to a Tesco shelf on time or a commuter has to stand for an hour on the way to work. Millions walk, cycle etc, that's why we've got legs. Too far to get to work under your own steam? - Get a job nearer home or move house. I'm sure rural villagers would be quite happy that local housing return to a less inflated price and people born in that area could afford to live there once again.
Would you be so worried about bunnies and whatnot if they were spending money on new motorways? Read countless threads on here about demanding new road building and how congested everything is and we moan when some crusties demonstrate and try and block it.It’s the same with the railways. We are at capacity today and rail traffic is growing. Both the WCML and ECML (which take the bulk of north/south traffic) are full. What do you propose to do instead that’ll alleviate the problems we face today that can also solve tomorrow’s problems?
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